exporting scope

[butchlambert]

I love these discussions about export restrictions, a lot of the answers just go to show how ignorant a lot of people are about the ACTUAL items covered by the ITAR.
Here goes a list of scopes that Leupold say are covered by ITAR
http://www.leupold.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/ITAR-FG.pdf
Last time I looked Leupold made a lot of other scopes that aren't on that list.

Now a business that sells scopes for a living actually state they ship International, but only those items not covered by ITAR.
http://www.theriflescopestore.com/shtoau.html

I am unsure which scopes were being shipped to Canada (as outlined earlier in this thread) but one thing I do know the firearms parts value restriction for those countries other than Canada is $100 while Canada is $500.

I have been told by some individuals that they aren't allowed to ship reloading dies out of the US, well the only reloading items restricted (apart from powder, primers and other components) are "automated" reloading equipment, I'm still trying to find that automated set of dies.......no matter how much training I give my dies they still won't do it automatically, it would save me a lot of time reloading if they did.

Recently I purchased an item from a private individual, he went to ship it and was told by UPS it's illegal to ship it International, so he phoned BATF and Homeland security, both agencies said it was OK to send it to that country, do he did ship it by USPS and it arrived.

Yet I've seen many say that you can't ship those things out of the US.

Roly check with BATF and Homeland security you may find that since the Weaver T36 doesn't have a mil dot reticle or other military reticle it is allowed to be exported to certain countries.

Thank you.

 

[DennisH]

I am trying to understand the following:

Why is it so hard and difficult to import a part, even a wooden stock from Canada to the US?

In the past, I have tried to order a part for a motorcycle and a stock from Canada. After checking into the import laws, I immediately stopped the process. I have heard horror stories involving items imported from Canada.

Just looking for an explanation.

Dennis

 

[wwbrown]

The state department is the US agency that defines what articles are considered ITAR items and enforces ITAR. I worked foreign military programs and had dealings with ITAR items on almost a daily basis. Go here https://www.pmddtc.state.gov/regulations_laws/itar.html if you have any doubt who is in charge of ITAR. They are the only agency who can give you the real "skinny" on ITAR, keep in mind most federal agencies are doing good if they can give you correct information about what their agency does much less be able to give advice on the rules and regulations that are the responsibility of other agencies.

The most common response when someone asks a question about what an FFL can or can not do is to contact your local ATF office as they are the only ones who fully understand what the rules and regs are and get it in writing. In the same vein I would recommend those who have questions about ITAR to go to the link I have identified if they have questions about what items are covered by ITAR.


Here is a listing of firearms related ITAR items directly from the State Department web site:

Category I—Firearms, Close Assault Weapons and Combat Shotguns

*(a) Nonautomatic and semi-automatic firearms to caliber .50 inclusive (12.7 mm).

*(b) Fully automatic firearms to .50 caliber inclusive (12.7 mm).

*(c) Firearms or other weapons (e.g. insurgency-counterinsurgency, close assault weapons systems) having a special military application regardless of caliber.

*(d) Combat shotguns. This includes any shotgun with a barrel length less than 18 inches.

*(e) Silencers, mufflers, sound and flash suppressors for the articles in (a) through (d) of this category and their specifically designed, modified or adapted components and parts.

(f) Riflescopes manufactured to military specifications (See category XII(c) for controls on night sighting devices.)

*(g) Barrels, cylinders, receivers (frames) or complete breech mechanisms for the articles in paragraphs (a) through (d) of this category.

(h) Components, parts, accessories and attachments for the articles in paragraphs (a) through (g) of this category.

(h) is a catch all because if you go up to (a) it covers all firearms "Nonautomatic and semi-automatic firearms to caliber .50 inclusive". It seems to indicate that all attachments to firearms are ITAR items, it does not say anything about the military purpose. Basically if they want to stick it to you they can and will. So proceed with caution aware of the issues. You may be able to get away with scopes because they may not be "manufactured to military specifications" but many of the military specifications for riflescopes are met by any quality optic, it does not call out only the reticle because the armed services have used an amazing array of reticles through time.

While working for Lockheed Martin I performed a demonstration of a small drone system for the British Army in Basra Iraq in 2007 and had a temporary export license that covered every piece of equipment I brought in to Iraq. One line item on the temporary export license was a number of lithium-polymer (lipo) rechargeable batteries. Lipo batteries are hazardous so when they showed up on the manifest on the RAF plane leaving Iraq the captain refused to have them on board as cargo.

When the shipment came back into the country the inventory done by the officials showed the lipo batteries were not present, meaning they had been permanently "exported" on a temporary export license. Since I was the person who signed the export license and did the "exporting" I was personally criminally responsible for that illegal export of military hardware. You will say there is nothing militarily sensitive about lipo batteries as they are mainly manufactured outside the US and available by mail order anywhere in the world, that did not matter. Luckily I worked for a large corporation with a large legal team and they were able to get the charges dropped and it was no longer a problem for me.

The most important thing you can remember is the rules are federal so they do not have to make sense.

Given the climate we are in I am sure that the federal agencies are told by our current president to go easy on gun owners as they are just exercising their second amendment rights.

I will shut up on this topic, I have wasted enough of people's time already, I just wanted people to know where to go if you want to get the actual rules and interpretations of what ITAR is and covers.

 

[JRS]

This might help:

U.S. Dept of Commerce as of October 2014.

'Rimfire rifle scopes are classified as ECCN OA987 under the U.S. Dept of Commerce BIS export rules. Mounts (rings and bases) and tools for mounting optical sights are classified as ECCN EA99. There are no U.S. Dept of Commerce or State restrictions or controls on the export of ECCN OA989 and EA99 to the following countries ONLY. Australia, UK and New Zealand. No export license is required to ship to these three countries".

More confusion

 

[DennisH]

wwbrown, thanks for your response and time. Now it makes a little more since.

Something as simple as batteries, well all I can say there is something in this mix I definitely don't understand.

Dennis

 

[dickn52]

Depends on where it's going. DOS licenses are required in most countries, but there are some where they are NOT required. OP left out the where it is going part. JRS got the BIS thing right on. Beat me up on that one.

 

[scott_at_vortex]

Unless you have an export license for each individual country you plan on selling and shipping to I can assure you it is not worth the trouble you can face when it comes to riflescopes. I have witnessed multiple dealers get their selves in quite a jam over the years by shipping riflescopes overseas/borders.

 

[BOB LEE SWAGGER]

Send your scope. Customs will seize it. Petition to get it back and pay a penalty. At least for me and my attempt to send one to Canada last month.
It is 100% my fault, I only WISH that when filling out paperwork with the postal employee he would have asked (since clearly marked as a scope) if I had an export license and said "You can't send a scope to Canada without one". I asked what would happen if it didn't make it through customs and he said "They return it to you". HAHA!

 

[17Hunter]

Bob Lee is right on. Happened to me awhile back. The USPS doesnt know, so dont trust what they say. I attempted to ship a Leupold 12x, customs got it and i paid $200.00 to get it back. Took about 8-9 weeks and now I have $450 in to a $250 scope. Expensive lesson learned.

 

[sscoyote]

This is an interesting topic for me since i go to the Philippines every year or 2. I love to hunt and shoot with airguns there but trying to get the info of what i can send for gifts for my relatives/buddies there is very difficult. I believe that not only are you governed by the exporting country, but also the importing countries regs as well. Got caught on a Korean Air Flt several years ago with a 2X pistol scope in my check-in luggage. They called me on it, were very polite and once they checked my baggage i was sent on my way and i had my hat in my hand the entire time for them since they were just doing their job. I don't intend to send anything else though until i get all my ducks in a row no matter how many phone calls i need to make.

1 other thing I should mention is that I "heard" if a certain shipment of boxes from a certain companies manifest has an item that's suspected of being illegal the entire shipment of boxes can be rejected, though i don't know if this is true or not. If it is though all the Filipinos in CO could be pretty mad at me...?