Explain Action Length Options

[Justin Utherdude]

Howdy y'all.

Heck of a first post. I'm looking to build a handful of rifles in the next year or so and have started to wonder about actions. Would someone explain in easy to understand terms what action lengths are out there? I'm probably going to try to get a remington 700 footprint action, ideally with some sort of pre-fit barrel system. (I've heard of the bighorn/zermatt actions, the ARC nucleus, and remage kits... are there any others?) AICS magazines would be nice, but I don't know how they factor in to action length vs internal box magazines.

I've seen people reference:
Short action
Long action
Magnum action
Short magnum action
remington 700 based medium
remington 700 long action cip 3.850
CIP lengths (usually added after one of the aforementioned actions)

Any help you guys can offer to cut through the fog of confusion would help me a lot. I was planning to go all long actions, but I didn't know what the difference between a regular long action, a cip 3.850 long action, and a magnum action was. I think that there's a big difference in 50 bmg sized actions, but is magnum another term for a 50 bmg size action?

I planned on a few calibers.
something in .224 caliber to shoot very large pills (WSSM, 220 swift, maybe something else)
280 Ackley Improved
7mm-300 win mag (7mm practical?)
338 lapua magnum
.375 something (cheytac or some sort of wildcat... undecided on this)

 

[Ned Ludd]

Very briefly - action length can vary to accomodate different length cartridges. Bolt face diameter can vary to accomodate cartridges of different base diameter. Beyond that, I would suggest doing some internet searches/study on your own using a query string such as "action length and bolt face diameter". You will find lots of information that will help you piece together some understanding of the different terms and what they mean.

For example:
1) https://hti.center/sniper/database-of-bolt-faces-and-actions
- has some explanation/description in green near the top of the page

2) https://hti.center/sniper/faq-for-bolt-face-diameters
-FAQs about bolt face diameters

action length and bolt face diameter - Google Search

 

[DirtySteve]

Short action, intended for shorter cartridges. Availible in standard (308) or 223 bolt face.
Short Mag Action, same as above but with magnum bolt face.

If they say Remington 700 foot print, it means it is compatible with any stock or trigger that can be used with a Remington 700.

 

[slm9s]

A short action is about 5 pieces of bubblegum long. A long action is about 7 pieces of bubblegum long. Some "medium" actions exist that are about 6 pieces of bubblegum long.
Any length action can have any size boltface.

 

[ronsatspokane]

Conflating action length and bolt face diameter overly complicates the issue. Action length and bolt face diameter are separate elements used to describe the actions application to a specific cartridge.

There are essentially three action lengths, short, medium and long. Short is used for short cartridges like 308, 6.5 creedmoor and many others. Long is used for long cartridges like 30-06 or 300 win mag and many others. Medium is used for those in the middle or for short cartridges where the bullet are seated a long way out which effectively increases the length. There are other action lengths, see below.

With bolt diameter there are essentially 3. 223 base size (.378), standard or 308 base size (.470) and magnum (.540). These sizes accommodate the majority of cartridges. Again, there are other bolt diameters, see below.

You can have a short action magnum for something like 300 WSM, a long action magnum for something like 300 win mag and likewise standard bolt faces in either length actions for other calibers like 30-06 (standard face, long action) or 308 (standard face, short action).

That said, there are other action sizes and bolt face diameters. 223 can be a short action but also often a mini action which is shorter and lighter than a short action. 338 Lapua and it's parent cartridge 416 Rigby require a .585 diameter bolt face in a long or even longer (and heavier) action. When you get into Cheytac or 50 BMG sizes, all bets are off. There does not seem to be a standard. The only thing you can be sure of is that they will be a very large and heavy actions with bolt diameters specific to the cartridge.

Hopefully this helps clarify the issue.

 

[Conaso]

And to mess with your mind, Sako/Tikka uses the same length receiver, i.e., short or long action, by using two different 'bolt stops' on their bolt action rifles. Other manufacturers may do the same.

Tikka Bolt Stop Assembly -

Tikka Bolt Stop Assembly. OEM & Aftermarket available. Long & short action available. Blued or stainless steel. Ambidextrous. Aftermarket or OEM available.

jaoutdoors.com

 

[cptjack]

if you are 5 get a 22

 

[NorCalMikie]

Long action = 30.06.
Short action= .221 Fireball/20VT/.223/.308/257 Roberts, etc.

 

[Bojo]

A short action is about 5 pieces of bubblegum long. A long action is about 7 pieces of bubblegum long. Some "medium" actions exist that are about 6 pieces of bubblegum long.
Any length action can have any size boltface.

What kind of bubble gum ?

 

[std7mag]

A "long" action (280 Rem, 270 Win, 30-06, 7mm Rem Mag, 300 Win Mag) may also be called a "standard" action.

Medium length action may also be found for cartridges such as 6mm Rem, 257 Roberts, and 7 & 8mm Mauser. (7X57)

A lot of people have built 284 Win rifles on medium length Mauser actions to be able to seat a bullet out longer.

 

[PhilC]

And to mess with your mind, Sako/Tikka uses the same length receiver, i.e., short or long action, by using two different 'bolt stops' on their bolt action rifles. Other manufacturers may do the same.

Tikka Bolt Stop Assembly -

Tikka Bolt Stop Assembly. OEM & Aftermarket available. Long & short action available. Blued or stainless steel. Ambidextrous. Aftermarket or OEM available.

jaoutdoors.com

Savage did similar in the 80s, my wife's 7-08 is a long action 110 with a bolt stop.

 

[JMayo]

I chose my action based on the cartridges i may want to barrel the rifle with. 30 br, 6br & 6ppc. ....
I know these br cases are short compared.
I could go bigger but that's my setup.
Bat DS action with 308 bolt face.

 

[divingin]

Go ask your Mom.

 

[Justin Utherdude]

Okay, so two major action lengths. Long and short, with different bolt face diameters available in both for different calibers. Many minor action lengths for "medium" actions or things like 50 cal actions.

I did some research and it looks like CIP refers to the european SAAMI or something like that? Usually slightly longer cartridge OALs?

I'm assuming that the slightly longer OAL of CIP means that CIP length is more related to chassis than action. This also leads me to believe that they take different magazines right? Are there any common magazines? Is the standard full on AICS magazines? I knew magpul made some, but it looks like the long action magpul mags aren't CIP length. What might my magazine options be for long action CIP 3.850 magazines.

One last thing. Is 338 lapua magnum a long action with a magnum bolt face or one of the wild west anything goes larger than long action sizes? If it's the latter are there any good 338 actions that take pre-fit barrels? Would the actions still have a long action 700 footprint?

Thanks for the help guys. I've had a sensible chuckle while reading your responses.

I'll keep my bubbalicious on hand for measuring action lengths in the future.

 

[Just Say Moe]

I planned on a few calibers.
something in .224 caliber to shoot very large pills (WSSM, 220 swift, maybe something else)
280 Ackley Improved
7mm-300 win mag (7mm practical?)
338 lapua magnum
.375 something (cheytac or some sort of wildcat... undecided on this)

If you are serious, start out with a more available caliber and ditch the WSSM and Swift. 223 Remington would be a good start. If you want to go bigger, 22-250 or 22 Creedmoor with a fast twist barrel. 243/6 Creedmoor are also hard to bead. Ammo and component availability should be right up there with your planning. I wouldn't start out with a wildcat or ammo unobtainium round.

 

[Justin Utherdude]

I actually own a 223 AI. It's the ultimate in budget blasting for my TC encore! (heavy as heck though) I'll have to see if I can take and upload some photos. Hence the idea to use some of the power, primers, and even the higher bullet weights that I already have. I just wanted to push them a bit further. The 224 is pretty low on the priority list. My imminent desire is for the 2x 7mm builds, then maybe the 338 after that. The 224 and 375 are probably for next year or even further down the road than that.

 

[Oso]

Monkey Wrench - There is yet another action size... the Mini Action.

It is smaller in size and length than the standard Short Action. It is geared toward micro-calibers, such as 221 Fireball, 223 Rem, 6.5 Grendel, and even the .204 Ruger (longest cartridge that they typically can fit). This size action was made famous by Sako with their L46 and L461 actions. More modern productions have been the Remington Model 7, Remington XP/650 action, CZ 527, Howa Mini-1500, and International Arms Mini Mauser.

 

[drover]

And to mess with your mind, Sako/Tikka uses the same length receiver, i.e., short or long action, by using two different 'bolt stops' on their bolt action rifles. Other manufacturers may do the same.

Tikka Bolt Stop Assembly -

Tikka Bolt Stop Assembly. OEM & Aftermarket available. Long & short action available. Blued or stainless steel. Ambidextrous. Aftermarket or OEM available.

jaoutdoors.com

All pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters were one action length for 22 Hornet through 458 Winchester.

drover

 

[divingin]

There are exceptions to a lot of these, but in general:

Short version is that action length determines the longest cartridge you can run without a lot of fiddling. The length of the action needs to have enough throw to pull a loaded cartridge from the chamber and eject it (you can get around that, but it would be non-standard operation; for instance removing the cartridge by pulling the bolt and cartridge from the action.)

Short actions are used for cartridges up to just shy of 3" (usually); up to about 308 length. Long actions are required for longer cartridges (.30-06, .270, most standard magnums.) I believe most standard magnum cartridges will fit long actions.

You original post seemed to confuse the bolt head recess with action length: The cartridge base needs to closely fit the bolt recess, and different cartridges have different head diameters. In general, the standard sizes are .223, PPC, .308, and Magnum case heads (assuming you consider PPC as "standard".) There are others out there as well. Within those standards you'll find multiple cartridges (for instance, a 308 bolt head will fit 308, 6BR, .30-06, .270, 6CM, and a bunch of others.)

So choosing an action comes down to length of the cartridge, and the right bolt recess to fit the case head (ignoring further options - 2-lug or 3, bottom metal/magazine compatability, etc.)

As far as Rem700 footprint actions, there's a ton of them out there. That generally refers to a given action diameter (1.35", I think) and action screw spacing. Most will use a 700-compatible trigger as well.

CIP is, indeed, the European version of SAAMI. Both list industry standards that manufacturers are supposed to follow for standardized cartridges to ensure compatibility.

 

[Tesoro]

Monkey Wrench - There is yet another action size... the Mini Action.

It is smaller in size and length than the standard Short Action. It is geared toward micro-calibers, such as 221 Fireball, 223 Rem, 6.5 Grendel, and even the .204 Ruger (longest cartridge that they typically can fit). This size action was made famous by Sako with their L46 and L461 actions. More modern productions have been the Remington Model 7, Remington XP/650 action, CZ 527, Howa Mini-1500, and International Arms Mini Mauser.

The sweetest little action I every had was a L461 Sako 223. Should have never sold it but I didnt use it and a member here wanted it.
I love my Mod7 but wouldnt recommend as finding stocks inletted for them is so much more limited than 700.