I happen to also agree it's not irrelevant. There simply facts that occur when deer get shot. Either they drop upon impact or they run. While running is as normal as dropping after a good shot, both occur. My experience with deer hitting the dirt with Berger's is from the higher shoulder shots at longer ranges where impact velocities are still higher than 2000 fps. Closer shots I typically shoot lower for heart lung behind the shoulder. It just is what it is when hitting a deer with a bullet. We all hope for an instant drop but more often deal with a short tracking job. Archery gear is much different.
Experiences with Berger VLD hunting bullets
- Thread starter rebel
- Start date
With Bergers be it VLD, Hybrid or Classic hunters I prefer a shot that a guy with a bow would take, low and tight behind the shoulder. If im shooting of any sort of proper rest and its within 300y ill put the berger in its head and not worry about it
My default answer for taking game animals is simple: shoot for the vitals.
JBT47
Silver $$ Contributor
Killed many deer using Hybrids (105's, 140's, 215's, and 230's) over the last several years. Mostly shoulder shots with good results. 215's and 230's from .300 Win Mag pass through shots through shoulders and exited offside at all distances which I've shot.
Have not used any Hunting VLD's
Have not used any Hunting VLD's
I have killed two Texas whitetail bucks with my 6.5x284 using Berger 140 grain hunting VLDs.
First buck: Buck was shot at 45 yards tight behind the shoulder, perfectly broadside. The deer hardly reacted and walked in a circle where I could see a complete pass thru and a generous exit wound. Deer then started to walk off so I put another bullet about one Inch lower than the first shot. The deer then ran about 30 yards and piled up.
Second buck: The buck was shot at 80 yards quartering towards me (to my right). Shot was placed well in front of closest shoulder, and exited right behind the far shoulder. The deer ran about 100 yards and I never saw a drop of blood. Upon recovering the buck, the exit wound was just slightly larger than bullet diameter.
My deer loads run about 2900 FPS.
First buck: Buck was shot at 45 yards tight behind the shoulder, perfectly broadside. The deer hardly reacted and walked in a circle where I could see a complete pass thru and a generous exit wound. Deer then started to walk off so I put another bullet about one Inch lower than the first shot. The deer then ran about 30 yards and piled up.
Second buck: The buck was shot at 80 yards quartering towards me (to my right). Shot was placed well in front of closest shoulder, and exited right behind the far shoulder. The deer ran about 100 yards and I never saw a drop of blood. Upon recovering the buck, the exit wound was just slightly larger than bullet diameter.
My deer loads run about 2900 FPS.
Shot some Impala and Blesbok with them without any problems, not sure of the size of your Deer but friends off mine have shot koedoe and Gemsbok/Oryx with them with no problems.
As said earlier, I have been using the 168 HVLD @ a tic over 2900 fps mv out of my 280ai. I am much more comfortable using this combo over 100 yards. I have and will continue to prefer behind the shoulder shots with Berger bullets. I guess I have lost some comfort with the Berger and quartering shots. I am more comfortable with a heart/lung shot at 400y with the Berger than something like an Accubond. There seems to be no "perfect" bullet at all distances and angles. I am hunting whitetail. Plenty of clowns are out there killing whitetail with 223 fmj's and varmint bullets. Perfection may not be needed for this particular critter.
Exactly what's meant by bullet placement. You'll kill but also will really develop your tracking skills. Put an target arrow thru a whitetails lungs and it's dead too. Just no blood trail and alot of tracking. Your right, there's no perfect bullet for every shot or distance but with Berger, it's a decent start.
If 'tracking' really is a legit concern, aim for the top 1/3 of the shoulder, straight up from the front leg, and your deer will be laying ~36" below where it was standing before you shot.
Or, aim for vitals, and you may actually have to walk a few yards to find your deer. It'll be just as dead, and the front shoulder(s) won't already be blood shot hamburger...
Or, aim for vitals, and you may actually have to walk a few yards to find your deer. It'll be just as dead, and the front shoulder(s) won't already be blood shot hamburger...
I see my post has come full circle. Fredo has just described the "high shoulder" shot much more eloquently than I have.
I have tracked hundreds of deer, some for myself, many more for other folks. Here in the South, the woods run thick and the temps are warmer. Sometimes bloodshot shoulder is a necessary evil because you may not have but an hour before the meat starts to get funky. There are enough thumbs up here that I feel fairly confident I can take any shot that presents itself.
The thing about Bergers, that no one can take away from them is that they go where you aim them. In short, they are simply just damn accurate. When you aim for the boiler room and connect, it really doesn't matter what bullet you're shooting, even if it blows up 2-3 inches on its way in. The bullet is going to kill what you're hunting, period.
Lastly, I don't know how or why Hornady bullets were brought up but they simply don't belong in the same conversation as Berger bullets.
Lastly, I don't know how or why Hornady bullets were brought up but they simply don't belong in the same conversation as Berger bullets.
Last edited:
I won't go so far to say that Hornady bullets aren't in the same class as Berger because they are very accurate bullets as well. It's really opinion for most. Berger is a phenomenally accurate bullet and performs well. Hornady at almost half the cost is the best deal out there and for the money, the best you'll find. It's certainly an arguable conversation regarding the two. Given money means nothing, berger gets my vote as well.
Northridge
Gold $$ Contributor
how far is your intended shooting distance? I have used berger hunting bullets in 6mm with success at very extended ranges and up close. up close it still will make it into chest cavity even with a shoulder in the way but don't be alarmed at the entrance hole because if it catches bone it will be soft ball sized, big enough to hang a gate off but dead. but really if your shooting 500 yards or shorter a bonded bullet will do e great job & if your a guy who has to have a hole on both sides of animal a bonded bullet will most all ways do this a berger will rarely exit at any distance short of 300grain .33cal bullets in hunting version.
Shawn Williams
Thanks Shawn. I live in the foothills of the Blue Ridge in N.C. It is heavily wooded and thick, but there is also a lot of agriculture ( soybeans, corn and hay fields ). Most of my deer kills of been under 100 yards, some of been within 25 with a rifle.
After I ripped a bicep, my bow hunting slowed down, even though I have a crossbow. The summers are longer here and hunting in 85 degrees with 2 thermocells just wasn't as appealing as it was when I was 30.
As my interest in precision shooting increased, I built box stands that allowed me to shoot off a steady platform.
I own 15 acres and plant food plots and my newer box stand is in the open, up on a slight rise overlooking a hay field bordered by soybeans I planted and thick woods. My longest shot would be around 350 from there because of the terrain, however if the deer was headed my way I would let it get closer. I still think like a bow hunter
I hunt for meat, not antlers, although a big rack of horns excites me like it would any hunter. Last year was horrible, with a lot of the season obscured by smoke from nearby forest fires and a heavy acorn crop.
I did manage to drop a large doe at 165-170 yards with a 260 AI, my longest kill to date. My purpose in starting this thread was because, other than paper, I had zero experience with the Bergers. You all have been great answering this question and giving me plenty of information to determine optimum shot placement. I never thought I had to have two holes in the animal, I want it dead, with minimal tracking, just like everyone does.
I have used ballistic tips to partitions in rifles over the years. Last year was the ELDX year.
I have laid many deer in the shade but have learned to ask folks about successes and failures before I try something new to me. Thanks for the replies all.
I have killed well in excess of 1000 deer in my life with about everything from a sharp stick through a 45-70. It really does not matter which bullet you use if you are shooting them with a high shoulder shot 99.9% will be BANG FLOP. I have only shot one deer with a Berger VLD hunting bullet. They are very accurate. I was using my 30x47 (300 Savage case with shoulder pushed back 10 thousands inch but left same over all length) rifle. Muzzle velocity of the 155 VLD was 2600 FPS. Shot was on a eastern NC 130ish pound doe at 111 yards standing broadside in a logging road between two cutovers. Shot was placed in the center of the front right side shoulder. At the shot the deer just squatted a little and took off in a dead run into the THICK cutover. When I went to where the deer was standing at the shot it looked like you had filled a quart jar full of blood and lung tissue and slung it down the road in a line about 5 yards long. From that spot in the direction the deer ran there was not a single drop of blood that I could find. The cut over was so THICK I got down on my hands and knees and crawled up the deer trail I assumed the deer had ran up after the shot. After about 50 yards I found the deer dead. It was laying on it's right side so I could see the exit hole immediately that was centered between the back edge of the scapula and the crease where you would make a normal heart lung shot. It was so large that you could have dropped a baseball into it and it would not have hit the sides. When I got the deer to the skinning shed and hung it up head down I think most of what was left in the completely pulped chest cavity came gushing out it's mouth. When I skinned it out the whole front end shoulder area was hamburger and bloodshot meat and even the front 1/4 of the back strap was ruined. From the damage I can not understand how that deer took a step but it went about 70 yards total. I went back to using the 125 gr Nosler ballistic tip at 2850 fps in this rifle which does not do as much damage with the same shot and I have never had a deer take more than a couple jumps ever when using this bullet in three different caliber rifles and pistols and that was usually a death dance stumble. So if you are making shots under 200 yards and using high shoulder shots like you stated save your money and shoot your standard cup and core soft point bullet from most any of the makers. For the 6mms (6 PPC) Sierra 85 HPBT Game King and (243 Win) Sierra 100 gr have worked great for me. I also try to shoulder shoot most deer because if they run where I hunt in East NC it is a jungle and swampy and they are hard to find so I like BANG FLOP. By the way 25-06 shooting 117 Sierra is one of the deadliest deer combos I have experienced.
A friend of mine spent the last year trying to get them to shoot out of his two 3006s without good enough groups. Like me, he is a hunter and not a long range target buster but he couldn't find a load that would consistently produce groups under 1 inch at 100 yards. He is switching to Sierra bullets.
Upgrades & Donations
This Forum's expenses are primarily paid by member contributions. You can upgrade your Forum membership in seconds. Gold and Silver members get unlimited FREE classifieds for one year. Gold members can upload custom avatars.
Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.
You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.
To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.
Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.
You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.
To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.