I've hunted deer most of my life as well and some ( not all hits) deer have only traveled short yardages before piling up if gone anywhere. That is just the difference in experience. I hear that all the time. Some guys I know kill deer with archery gear and they travel no more than 25 yards and done. My experience is not as good with archery gear. Ive lost many deer with what i thought were well placed shots. Most deer i do find go 50-100 yards and shooting fixed two blade heads I many times don't find blood. That's a tough tracking job. Point is, Berger's may jelly some meat or bloodshot some areas but it's the shot placement that matters. With any bullet or broadhead, shot placement is first. My two blade head is like a nosler partition and a Berger is like a 2" expandable broadhead. My analogy. Not everybody likes both but everybody has a preference. Where it is placed is what we can all agree is important. I have never had a deer walk away from a Berger bullet impact. DRT Everytime. Bonded bullets have seen deer go 25-50 yards max. Either way, same results. Dead deer and no tracking really. Every deer is different but they do have a strong will to survive. All experiences vary.
Experiences with Berger VLD hunting bullets
- Thread starter rebel
- Start date
I have shot a bunch of whitetail deer with the 140gr Accubond out of my 280AI. Most were within 200y. MV was probably 3150fps. Almost every one of them ran. Sometimes with 3 functional legs or no heart. There always was a tiny exit hole but major interior damage. Ballistic Tips and Berger's have anchored the deer within steps. Usually have large exit wounds. I have not had a failure with the BT or Berger but have not shot that many deer with them. Sort of a pick your poison deal. All my running deer seem to die in steep sided creek beds.
Do you still use fixed blades or have you gone to a mechanical broadhead? Really is a good analogy.
Nope, still use fixed. Do not like the possibility that a mechanical MAY not open. Call it what you want, I just have confidence hitting and cutting where I aim Everytime. Dont get me wrong, I've killed and retrieved many, many more than lost. Just that 1 lost is too many. Just the nature of the game. Sorry for side tracking the berger vld thread. Just seemed to fit.
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Yep I understand that theory well. At 15-20 yards, it doesn't really come into play. I would say the concept of gravity has more to do with an arrow than the broadhead. I've come to accept using archery gear has an unknown outcome once the string rolls of the finger tips, regardless of where an animal is hit. I just make sure I can hit them where I aim and I can sleep better. Cannot control the rest. Just like when I pull the trigger on the rifle.Think gravityEspecially using a broadhead.
I'm not talking about the arrow/broadhead. I am referencing the deer.
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Oh you mean the reaction aspect from the deer...true. I typically take it into consideration but it's another unknown. I mean upon recovery, all shots look like there where I put the dot. I'm typically a lung shooter so it's a big area even with a reaction at close range. Your right tho... Gravity works against all shots.
timeout
Silver $$ Contributor
It was shotgun only here for many years. If they went back to shotgun, I would quit hunting. I agree that whitetail many times give a burst, especially lung shots. The best bullet l Have found for anchoring them in chest area shots is the Berger HVLD. I shoot 105 HVLD's in a Dasher and 115 HVLD's in a 25-06. Now if you want to anchor them where they stand, neck shoot them with a 223. Never had one take a step when neck shot. An accidental high hit in the spine works too, but wreaks havoc with the tenderloins! Regarding brodheads, I'm 6 straight with Spitfire 3 blade mechanicals. Nearly had 1 get away but it was purely a lousy shot on my part. I have tried a couple of other well advertised brands that I didn't like. When I need to track, I take my wife back to the woods. She likes to do it and is good at it. She will find the deer. I fondly call her "Dog" on those excursions. Just celebrated 50 the anniversary, so she obviously is OK with that temporary nickname!
Not the reaction, the lungs and gravity.
50 years of helping you track deer and being called Dog sounds more permanent than temporary. Lol. Still a good story and obviously enjoyable for both of you.
There is something to this!!! and the way I know it is that I once put a 20 gauge slug smack dead center thru the heart of a nice big 11 pointer. He was a good 85-90 yards out from my stand and the remark everyone had when they saw how low I hit him was, "damn boy, you almost missed him!!!"
One year earlier a guy shot one and hit it in the chest four times....we tracked a decent blood trail {imagine that!!!} for four hours. Never recovered the deer. it was a big 10 point buck. We just ran out of blood. The deer was found the following spring when a farmer went out to plow.
I did quit with a shotgun...I honestly can kill a deer more effectively with my recurve. The number one thing that you cannot hunt without in regards to bowhunting is a razor sharp hair popping broadhead. When you think it is sharp push it straight into a rubber band...if it moves more than 1/4" and don't cut the rubber band...no diggity.
I call my wife "dog" too...but it usually involves her tying me up and beating me senseless. God I love that woman!!!
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If you want the explosive effect, the Berger will deliver. They make their way in approximately 6 inches and then explode. My only recommendation is to change from the high shoulder shot to the shot behind the shoulder into the lungs. Turning lungs into jello is no loss, turning high shoulder meat into hamburger is. My friend shoots Bergers in his 308, last year he hit the shoulder and dropped it in it's tracks. The shoulder was a bloody mess. There was so much blood shot meat in the shoulder that he left it. I personally hunt with the Swift A Frames. I like controlled expansion and a bullet that retains 95 plus percent of its weight. Others swear by the Berger style bullets that fragment completely.
If your choice is the Berger I just suggest that you aim for the lungs to minimize any potential meat loss.
If your choice is the Berger I just suggest that you aim for the lungs to minimize any potential meat loss.
Thanks, good info and that is what I figured. As said, never hunted with Bergers. I like exact shot placement, but that is not always possible on something animate. Lot's of good info here and hope I can report back a 6 BR kill this Thanksgiving.
Deer are incredible animals with an unending will to live. I thought I killed one with an arrow thru the lungs( assuming it went thru both lungs). It went thru one lung as the hunter that killed it two weeks later during rifle season found out when field dressing it. One lung and chasing a doe during the Rut. Now that's amazing.
Ledd Slinger
Silver $$ Contributor
Penetration and bullet performance is a sensible topic for discussion when talking about bullets. However, I keep hearing "DRT, dropped in his tracks, etc..." Then others talking about how many yards the deer ran.....irrelevant information.
Everyone knows that good shot placement is key with any bullet. I don't think this needs to be emphasized with experienced hunters.
But there is no guarantee as to what will happen if you shoot a deer behind the shoulder in the traditional kill zone area with ANY bullet. Some will drop, some will run, all will die if hit in the vitals. But nothing about bullets determines if an animal runs or drops when hit in the lungs or heart. I have seen more deer run from perfect heart shots than I have with all other killing shots combined. Seen deer drop or run a long ways with good lung shot's. I've watched elk run like nothing happened while missing a lot of lung tissue.
The one guarantee you can have that an animal will drop in its tracks with any bullet is by taking the high shoulder shot. It breaks the spine and sends shrapnel into the vitals shredding the lungs. They WILL drop in their tracks and they WILL die right there every time if the shot is placed on the shoulder correctly. It will ruin more meat than a traditional kill shot placement, but if you want to be guaranteed that you will anchor an animal right where it stands, that's the shot to take.
If you miss a little high, it will still drop and cripple the animal and you may have to finish it off. Miss low and your still right in the middle of the vitals and a good bullet should easily punch through a deers shoulder.
Everyone knows that good shot placement is key with any bullet. I don't think this needs to be emphasized with experienced hunters.
But there is no guarantee as to what will happen if you shoot a deer behind the shoulder in the traditional kill zone area with ANY bullet. Some will drop, some will run, all will die if hit in the vitals. But nothing about bullets determines if an animal runs or drops when hit in the lungs or heart. I have seen more deer run from perfect heart shots than I have with all other killing shots combined. Seen deer drop or run a long ways with good lung shot's. I've watched elk run like nothing happened while missing a lot of lung tissue.
The one guarantee you can have that an animal will drop in its tracks with any bullet is by taking the high shoulder shot. It breaks the spine and sends shrapnel into the vitals shredding the lungs. They WILL drop in their tracks and they WILL die right there every time if the shot is placed on the shoulder correctly. It will ruin more meat than a traditional kill shot placement, but if you want to be guaranteed that you will anchor an animal right where it stands, that's the shot to take.
If you miss a little high, it will still drop and cripple the animal and you may have to finish it off. Miss low and your still right in the middle of the vitals and a good bullet should easily punch through a deers shoulder.
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69gr. Berger 6XC. Flipped him over for exit hole pic. 225yds. This literally knocked the sh!t out of him
No sir, it is not irrelevant. Not when your primary concern IS dropping them in their tracks. If I never have to track another wounded bear or deer it would suit me just fine. And if I do have to track one it will be too soon!!!
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