This link doesn't work Ray...it says nothing here. It will next say "nothing to see here...move along"
Executive order will bypass Congress!
- Thread starter Raythemanroe
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This link doesn't work Ray...it says nothing here. It will next say "nothing to see here...move along"
Raythemanroe
Bullet Whisperer
I checked it both times, the link did work.. I just copied and posted..
http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/31/politics/obama-to-announce-new-executive-action-on-guns/index.html
Ray
/VH
Hillary ain't in jail, so leave me to hell alone!
Why? How does someone else doing something bad make you responsible?
/VH
Hillary ain't in jail, so leave me to hell alone!
I agree, Joe but it appears that many (including shooters) have drank from the trough of incremential freedom loss for so long that they don't recognize it for what it is.
For example, Bob's statement: "When I sell a gun, I am happy it is well documented in case someone does something bad with it."
If he wants to sell a gun to someone and then keep track of or control what the buyer does with it that's fine, he should specify that in his deal with the buyer but leave me and everyone else out of it. It is this same type of thinking that brought about law suits against gun manufacturers for the actions of criminals.
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Bob,is one of the reasons the liberal states have unconstitutional laws.We are totaly screwed if the gun owners cant stick together. They can keep that crap in New York and Kommiefornia and whereever. I for one will fight it. Scotty
Raythemanroe
Bullet Whisperer
I did not say I wanted to control what the buyer of one of my guns did with it, just that I could prove if it was used in a crime that it was no longer in my possession at that time. I am not in favor of all the regulations in the Safe Act in New York, but I do not want to violate it and end up in jail under the Sullivan Act here. Also did not say that everyone else should do what I do, just that I feel more confident if I sell a gun that can be traced to me - i.e. 4473 form etc., that I can prove that I disposed of it.
It is also exactly NOT what brings on the attempt to bring law suits against gun manufacturers. Me wanting to show the chain of evidence so it is the CURRENT owners problem and not mine would be the exact same thing as saying that once a manufacturer sells to a distributor, it is the distributor's responsibility to keep it safe and to legally sell it to a dealer, who then takes on the responsibility until they sell it legally to the next owner in the procession. Don't twist my words, I have owned and supported gun ownership for the last 55 plus years of my life. In the past two years alone, I have purchased 22 shotguns, 8 new rifles and 4 new handguns. All legally by the way.
For 36 years I held an FFL and for 16 of those years I had a full time gun shop. Under Federal Law (1968 guys, not now) I have been required to keep all my 4473 forms and bound books that are less than 20 years old and if I do not want to keep them to turn them in.
It would not take much for the ATF to end up registering all firearms legally bought from a licensed dealer during the last 20 years by just calling in all the 4473 forms.
No one bothered to reprint the first part of my post though.
"If we would finally run someone that can get elected (A conservative republican) an Executive Order can be over turned by another Executive order, but if we don't get someone in the White House that is pro 2nd Ammendment, this fight is about over."
Bob
It is also exactly NOT what brings on the attempt to bring law suits against gun manufacturers. Me wanting to show the chain of evidence so it is the CURRENT owners problem and not mine would be the exact same thing as saying that once a manufacturer sells to a distributor, it is the distributor's responsibility to keep it safe and to legally sell it to a dealer, who then takes on the responsibility until they sell it legally to the next owner in the procession. Don't twist my words, I have owned and supported gun ownership for the last 55 plus years of my life. In the past two years alone, I have purchased 22 shotguns, 8 new rifles and 4 new handguns. All legally by the way.
For 36 years I held an FFL and for 16 of those years I had a full time gun shop. Under Federal Law (1968 guys, not now) I have been required to keep all my 4473 forms and bound books that are less than 20 years old and if I do not want to keep them to turn them in.
It would not take much for the ATF to end up registering all firearms legally bought from a licensed dealer during the last 20 years by just calling in all the 4473 forms.
No one bothered to reprint the first part of my post though.
"If we would finally run someone that can get elected (A conservative republican) an Executive Order can be over turned by another Executive order, but if we don't get someone in the White House that is pro 2nd Ammendment, this fight is about over."
Bob
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Raythemanroe
Bullet Whisperer
Bob, you can use a dealer when you sell a gun.. You don't need to empower big government to use a FFL dealer on your own..Hacking away at our second amendment doesn't make us safer.. Weak excuse in my opinion..
Ray
Actually, the fact is that UNFORTUNATELY in New York State, I now HAVE to use a dealer to transfer a gun if I want to be legal. This is not my choice, I did not have the chance to vote for or against it, but if I violate it the penalties are stiffer than I want to endure. I have joined in at rallies against the Safe Act. Bob is NOT the reason that our state has unconstitutional laws, but I do have to live with them.
Prior to the Safe Act, when I sold a gun privately, I had the buyer and I both sign a Bill of Sale that had on it the:
Make, Model, Serial Number, Caliber, Description AND the date and time that the transfer too place. From that point forward it was the new owners responsibility for that firearm not mine.
Bob
Prior to the Safe Act, when I sold a gun privately, I had the buyer and I both sign a Bill of Sale that had on it the:
Make, Model, Serial Number, Caliber, Description AND the date and time that the transfer too place. From that point forward it was the new owners responsibility for that firearm not mine.
Bob
/VH
Hillary ain't in jail, so leave me to hell alone!
This is the type of thinking that I mentioned previously. The government already has you thinking that you need to pre-prove your innocence.....and you're ok with that?
What is wrong with each individual and only each individual being solely responsible for their own actions. There are laws in place for those that causes harm to others or damage to their property. Where shall the "preemptive BS" laws and regulations stop? Should we not be allowed to get out of bed till noon if the ever efficient government figures out that 51% of murderers got up before 11:30?
Raythemanroe
Bullet Whisperer
Bob,
Yet you frequent a gun forum stating you like the fact that Big Gov hacked away at our rights again.. Read the post, I see no other way of interpretation.. You was happy for government documentation of private sales.. I feel many gun owners prescribe to " if it doesn't effect me" BS, While systematically loosing their rights. Then you wake up one day a criminal when you went to sleep a honest Patriot.
Ray
Yet you frequent a gun forum stating you like the fact that Big Gov hacked away at our rights again.. Read the post, I see no other way of interpretation.. You was happy for government documentation of private sales.. I feel many gun owners prescribe to " if it doesn't effect me" BS, While systematically loosing their rights. Then you wake up one day a criminal when you went to sleep a honest Patriot.
Ray
/VH
Hillary ain't in jail, so leave me to hell alone!
In regard to those who think background checks are the answer:
What EXACTLY does a background check indicate that will accurately predict what a person will do in the future?
In my opinion:
For buyers and sellers that want to perform background checks on each other, personally; knock yourself out all you want.
As far as government background checks; I have some experience with those, having managed contracts on military installations for several years. Over those years, I have seen several instances where the government got it wrong.....both ways and I can give examples, if anyone would like. I am also somewhat familiar with the procedure and the form required to be submitted to the FBI, should a person believe that that his background information is incorrect and he would like to REQUEST to have it corrected.
Heck, even the DOJ can thwart the background check process and they apparently aren't legally liable. So, there's a precedent!
What EXACTLY does a background check indicate that will accurately predict what a person will do in the future?
In my opinion:
For buyers and sellers that want to perform background checks on each other, personally; knock yourself out all you want.
As far as government background checks; I have some experience with those, having managed contracts on military installations for several years. Over those years, I have seen several instances where the government got it wrong.....both ways and I can give examples, if anyone would like. I am also somewhat familiar with the procedure and the form required to be submitted to the FBI, should a person believe that that his background information is incorrect and he would like to REQUEST to have it corrected.
Heck, even the DOJ can thwart the background check process and they apparently aren't legally liable. So, there's a precedent!
I can't understand were they are going with this, they never do anything to people that go through the back check but are denied. There should be jail sentence for trying to buy a gun and you know you are a felon. I shouldn't have to go though a back ground check, I've been a good boy for over 50 years. My NEW YORK STATE CC permit is all I should need to buy one anywhere.
Joe Salt
Joe Salt
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