ERIK & ERIC

[Bill Norris]

WOW ! O K we know tuners work if used correctly. Why does it matter how & why they work. There does not always need to be an explanation for everything. This guy (ERIC) says he has issues with saying they actually work. I think Cortina stands his ground really well.

 

[ASD9055]

Been using tuners for 37 years. If they dont work for him, ntbody is making him use them. Simple!

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

 

[Bill Norris]

View attachment 1446753

Absolutely Bro. LOL.

 

[williepete]

I saw that video not really impressed with that dude
I run a tuner and it works for me
I don't know all the science behind it and really don't
need to know as long as the thing works when you change the settings
your group size changes.

 

[SKWERLZ]

WOW ! O K we know tuners work if used correctly. Why does it matter how & why they work. There does not always need to be an explanation for everything. This guy (ERIC) says he has issues with saying they actually work. I think Cortina stands his ground really well.

I disagree with a few points that other guy said but I never poo poo asking based questions.
Unlike our government overlords I support questioning science and theory.
Their talk about importance of equipment vs personal effort was spot on.

 

[davidjoe]

I appreciate that Erik isn’t reluctant to put the tuner doubters on video. Eric is willing to rent a high speed camera, conduct experiments with the benefit of motion enhancing technology and share his findings.

That’s a significant personal effort in the name of curiosity and anything that adds to the body of knowledge is a good thing. It’s clear that he’s not immersed in our fully supported, very heavy gun disciplines, and so he’ll gain perspective too in the process.

I do hope that he uses the camera and heavy guns to explore the questions that began the video and that I have posted on, if Eric and Brian (and our friend Mark in Australia) are reading this:

1) Can we see a full view of the rifles and the loads, that are “moving backwards” before before bullet exit;

2) Can you put a .284 and Saum 22 pounder in rests and shoot them both shouldered and free recoil;

3) can you clarify on a video that the gun, as all objects, does NOT move the instant “any” amount of pressure is applied to the bolt face, in the same way that when we bench press, the bar does not separate contact from the rack until the pressure being applied upward exceeds the weight, such that 225#’s for example, does not move upward a single bit with 100 pounds of upward force, 150, 210, etcetera, such that a true delay between the start of force and movement results (which is in many setups sufficient for a bullet to exit pre-movement).

4) In light of (3) can they please show or acknowledge the veracity of videos of some, if not most guns apparently “not moving” backwards before the bullet exits.

5) lastly, if willing to get theoretical, and if convinced guns can “truly recoil” without the bullet exiting, then venture a hypothesis for what a theoretical rifle would do “recoil-wise” that had a plugged muzzle so that the bullet could never exit, or an extremely long barrel where friction drug the bullet to a stop before it exited. (Cognizant that if a gun “recoils” before bullet exit, that is about to be blocked, then a wayward space-walker ought to be able to exhale inside his helmet and propel himself back to the ship, but that doesn’t work, a fart inside the suit won’t move him at all, while expelling his O2 through a hose does, because, movies).

 

[williepete]

I am going out this morning to test a new load for es/sd
while doing so I will work with tuner on 10 targets moving the tuner one number
for each three shots and post the target and see what it looks like
I will shoot 50 rounds, out of the first thirty rounds pick out the best setting on the tuner
and see if I can fine tune the last twenty rounds with the tuner using half steps going up and down

 

[CharlieNC]

Eric said he read everything available on the subject, but it looks like he missed important info in Vaughn's book.......

 

[JimSC]

Go to any rimfire benchrest competition where tuners are legal and count how many finishing in the top ten are running a tuner of some sort.

 

[Bill Norris]

Go to any rimfire benchrest competition where tuners are legal and count how many finishing in the top ten are running a tuner of some sort.

Absolutely, and I think most shooters know a tuner does it's job but just because some cannot accept it they will try to disprove it any way they can. They try and use the scientific approach to prop themselves up.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Absolutely, and I think most shooters know a tuner does it's job but just because some cannot accept it they will try to disprove it any way they can. They try and use the scientific approach to prop them up.

Funny, because it's science that supports tuners and it's not even that complicated or hard to understand. People believe what they want to believe and some try hard to disprove the rest. More accurately, most want someone else to disprove it for them and then read something they agree with and sit back and say, "see, I told ya so."...and without any skin in the game nor effort on their part. At least this guy is trying but I doubt high speed cameras will tell much unless they are incorporated with something to accurately overlay bullet exit time.

 

[Todd Earhart]

Before I left the shop yesterday evening I turned on YouTube and seen the video. I started video and managed through probably 45 minutes. I turned it off and went home. Not really interested in wasting the time on the rest.
Todd

 

[Bill Norris]

Funny, because it's science that supports tuners and it's not even that complicated or hard to understand. People believe what they want to believe and some try hard to disprove the rest. More accurately, most want someone else to disprove it for them and then read something they agree with and sit back and say, "see, I told ya so."...and without any skin in the game nor effort on their part. At least this guy is trying but I doubt high speed cameras will tell much unless they are incorporated with something to accurately overlay bullet exit time.

I think at best he is grabbing at straws. Too much evidence and proof exist for any discrediting the tuner.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

I think at best he is grabbing at straws. Too much evidence and proof exist for any discrediting the tuner.

Hopefully some naysayer will agree that it's easier to prove cause and effect than the other way around. The effect is obvious and the cause is all that's left. Like proving 2+2 does NOT equal 4. Good luck to them with that, I guess but who knows with today's funny math. Like you said though...does it really matter to most? Most people can't scientifically describe how an internal combustion engine in a car works but they just hop in and go because they know it works.

 

[tom]

Someone should start a thread that combines tuners and primer seating depths.....and statistics

Tom

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Someone should start a thread that combines tuners and primer seating depths.....and statistics

Tom

68,972 members here. 68,963 haven't posted on this thread yet. There's golden nugget hidden in that.

 

[Eagle Six]

I watched up to the point Higgin's was going to rent the photo equipment, setup at a range and shooters will come with their guns. Reminds me of a movie I didn't watch, build it and they will come, or something like that.

I'm a science and engineer enthusiast. I look forward to his research findings, which most likely will leave many questions unanswered and a few answers that we already know. He will also probably inadvertently increase the demand for tuners.

 

[williepete]

I am going out this morning to test a new load for es/sd
while doing so I will work with tuner on 10 targets moving the tuner one number
for each three shots and post the target and see what it looks like
I will shoot 50 rounds, out of the first thirty rounds pick out the best setting on the tuner
and see if I can fine tune the last twenty rounds with the tuner using half steps going up and down

Well the good bad and the ugly
the test was bad it sucked the es/sd was suckin to say the least
shot 50 rounds es128.03 sd24.84
started the tuner out on 0 three shot groups up to 10 on the tunner 30 sh0ts total
as you can see the groups opened and closed throughout the test
but the load was fu as you can see the tuner wont make a sucky load better but the groups got smaller and bigger even with a bad load I need to get the es down below 30 and the sd in the single digits and do this again cheers hope this was helpful for someone
all in all it was still a fun 2 and a half hours at the range with all of the other old men Cheers

 

[Bill Norris]

Well the good bad and the ugly
the test was bad it sucked the es/sd was suckin to say the least
shot 50 rounds es128.03 sd24.84
started the tuner out on 0 three shot groups up to 10 on the tunner 30 sh0ts total
as you can see the groups opened and closed throughout the test
but the load was fu as you can see the tuner wont make a sucky load better but the groups got smaller and bigger even with a bad load I need to get the es down below 30 and the sd in the single digitsView attachment 1446900 and do this again cheers hope this was helpful for someone
all in all it was still a fun 2 and a half hours at the range with all of the other old men Cheers

Would you care to list caliber and load data info?