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Elk Hunting Cartridge Advice

wright brothers said:
Is there an archery season for these?
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Yes it's my favorite time to hunt elk as the rut is coming in to full swing.
General season archery elk runs concurrent with deer usually starts last weekend in August lasts for a month.
General season can be purchased over the counter even for non residents.
East side is mostly draw but does have a few units that aren't, west side is pretty much open from pacific crest trail to the coast California to Washington
My nephew arrowed this bull last year in Starkey unit. Far east side draw huntIMG952978.jpg
 
So 06 is too small but bows are ok, got it.
LOL kidding. Our whitetail seasons are a lot like those.
Archery in main rut. Old deer everywhere. Later in rifle, after some pressure they can get scarce.
About the animals evolving.
When coyotes first came here they were mouthy and rather easy to locate. Not now

When I first read this I thought good idea using his old rifle rather than new mag fever. BUT, I have zero experience with elk.
Sounds like he had a great time.
 
K22 said:
A good friend of mine will be going on a guided Elk hunt in Colorado. This will be his first hunting trip out west and first Elk hunting experience. I'm trying to help him prepare from a shooting perspective.

He's accomplished PA big game hunter but not a range shooter kind of guy. He will using his long time 308 rifle with a 3 x 9 scope and factory ammunition. He's taken a bunch of deer and three black bears in PA, the latter no small task. He's the best hunter I've ever seen but unlike me, he's not a reloader, range shooter or precise shooter type of guy. He's check's sight in before big game season with 3 shots and that's it. His go to ammo is 180 Remington soft point Core Loke factory ammo which he's used forever but due to terrain, all his shots were well under 150 yards.

His guide has advised him to be prepared for a 200 to 300 yards shot.

I've never hunted Elk and I haven't shot factory centerfire rifle ammo in a very long time. Can you Elk hunters recommend a factory offering that will be effective.

PS: My novice review of bullets and ballistic tables indicates that a 165-spitzer bullet might be a good compromise between velocity and energy for the aforementioned distances and cartridge.
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If your friend has been using this combination for his hunting and knows it well, there is no reason to change it. Don't know where he has it sighted in for, but if he would sight it for 1 1/2 inch high at 100 yrds he can hold dead center on any Elk's lung/heart area from 50 to 300 yrds and make a killing shot.
The old adage "Beware the man with one Rifle" holds true. Those Core-Lokts have taken many big game animals around the world.
 
Bill K said:
If your friend has been using this combination for his hunting and knows it well, there is no reason to change it. Don't know where he has it sighted in for, but if he would sight it for 1 1/2 inch high at 100 yrds he can hold dead center on any Elk's lung/heart area from 50 to 300 yrds and make a killing shot.
The old adage "Beware the man with one Rifle" holds true. Those Core-Lokts have taken many big game animals around the world.
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This is exactly what the guide told him in preparation for the hunt.

Me, being a shooter / hunter, tried to convince him to get a 30 06. Dixon merely smiled at my "armchair" advice. He has taken 10 times more deer than me, 3 PA black bears, numerous turkeys in the big north central woods of PA. He is absolutely the best hunter I have ever known, a true woodsman, a throwback. While he respects my shooting skills, he knows he can out hunt me any day of the week and has done it, all the time.

To give you an idea his mentality, when his wife was worried about him driving, alone in November to Colorado in his mid 70's, his response was, "Peggy, it is not like there are Indians out there anymore waiting to scalp me - stop worrying." I am still laughing over that one but that is my best friend. He would have made a perfect Navy Seal or Army Ranger.
 
Practice is critical. Our mountains are steep and has already been mentioned, altitude is a real wake-up call if one is not used to it.

A recent walkabout here, I'm dialing in on a 'head-size' rock at 712 yards at the top of the distant ridge using cross-sticks. I'd never try to shoot an elk at that range, but I know I could if I wanted to after much practice out in the open desert.



After practice at extended range, confidence is boosted when a 300~ yard shot is offered.
 
This has always been a popular question. Im definitely in the use enough gun camp. Yes you can kill them with a .22 with perfect shot placement but we and not perfect and I have seen a lot of hunters make poor shots because of the excitement even if they are excellent shots at the range. Not to mention the wind out west is not like the wind back home. To answer the question, I have to ask how far do you want to shoot ans are you ok passing on shots? If you want to be able to shoot out to 600 in the wind, the 6.5 creedmoor is not a great choice. Elk are much tougher than deer. I have seen them soak up lead like no other animal. They cover ground so fast its amazing, you do not want to wound one. Its not just about size, its the guts. While a moose is also a massive animal their heart is physically smaller. I remember helping my buddy gut his moose and while it was bigger than any elk I have seen, I was amazed how small the internals were in comparison to an elk. I think that why they can just take more than moose or deer. Im not saying you need the biggest magnums out there but I do have a preference for the .30s and .338s. After experiencing enough elk hunts and shooting a lot in Montana I pulled my personal max shot back to 6-700 and maybe if things were perfect Id push it to 800. Those shots I felt I could make without unexplained misses. Past that I had range trips that I would miss wind calls or have dope off enough to miss high or low. Inside 600 that did not happen. Could I kill them at 1200? Yes I could, but I could also wound one. So after making that decision, I have settled on the 300wsm with 185s as my absolute favorite elk rifle. I have had everything from 280ai to 338 lapua imp. I also love the 338 lapua imp, but I dont need it for 600yd shots. For the guys that want to go past that the 338 is my favorite but it needs to be 13 pounds at least. The big 300s fit in between. The 300wm to 300nmi. The reason the big 30s are popular is because they get you closer to the 338 but you can build them lighter. If a guys want the most in a 10lb rifle, build a 300 NMI. For me cartridge selection revolves around max distance and weight. If you want the gun to shoot it needs enough mass, the bigger the bullet the heavier the rifle has to be. The long the distance the better the ballistics have to be, its all a compromise.
 
Alex Wheeler said:
This has always been a popular question. Im definitely in the use enough gun camp. Yes you can kill them with a .22 with perfect shot placement but we and not perfect and I have seen a lot of hunters make poor shots because of the excitement even if they are excellent shots at the range. Not to mention the wind out west is not like the wind back home. To answer the question, I have to ask how far do you want to shoot ans are you ok passing on shots? If you want to be able to shoot out to 600 in the wind, the 6.5 creedmoor is not a great choice. Elk are much tougher than deer. I have seen them soak up lead like no other animal. They cover ground so fast its amazing, you do not want to wound one. Its not just about size, its the guts. While a moose is also a massive animal their heart is physically smaller. I remember helping my buddy gut his moose and while it was bigger than any elk I have seen, I was amazed how small the internals were in comparison to an elk. I think that why they can just take more than moose or deer. Im not saying you need the biggest magnums out there but I do have a preference for the .30s and .338s. After experiencing enough elk hunts and shooting a lot in Montana I pulled my personal max shot back to 6-700 and maybe if things were perfect Id push it to 800. Those shots I felt I could make without unexplained misses. Past that I had range trips that I would miss wind calls or have dope off enough to miss high or low. Inside 600 that did not happen. Could I kill them at 1200? Yes I could, but I could also wound one. So after making that decision, I have settled on the 300wsm with 185s as my absolute favorite elk rifle. I have had everything from 280ai to 338 lapua imp. I also love the 338 lapua imp, but I dont need it for 600yd shots. For the guys that want to go past that the 338 is my favorite but it needs to be 13 pounds at least. The big 300s fit in between. The 300wm to 300nmi. The reason the big 30s are popular is because they get you closer to the 338 but you can build them lighter. If a guys want the most in a 10lb rifle, build a 300 NMI. For me cartridge selection revolves around max distance and weight. If you want the gun to shoot it needs enough mass, the bigger the bullet the heavier the rifle has to be. The long the distance the better the ballistics have to be, its all a compromise.
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I don't think you're giving enough credit to the bigger 7 mags. They'll do anything the 300 mags will do, save a few hundred lbs of energy, with a lot less recoil at that.

To get the same ballistics as a good 7 mag with a 180, you have to step up to a lot bigger 30 cal case and bullet, like 300 RUM with 215+ Doing so only nets you a few hundred ft pounds energy and a whole lot more recoil. Not exactly a great trade off within most reasonable ranges in my opinion to warrant the difference anyway.

I've had all the 7/30/33 mags and super mags, and I've found a new favorite LR hammer in the 7-300 Win mag with a 180g ELDM at 3100fps. It ain't no slouch compared to the 30 and 33 mags, and it recoils a whole hell of a lot less. And the elk haven't seemed to notice the difference either.
 
I have killed elk with 243 Win., 7 mm-08, 284 Win., 7 STW, 300 Win Mag and 30-28 Nosler. The results with the .243 and 7-08 were less than ideal. The others worked. I thought the The 7 STW (150 TSX at 3400) was perfect until I got the 30-28. Both worked well but the 30-28 with the 215s has flat dropped them in all circumstances.
 
I have a number of different elk suitable cartridges in the safe. Would really like to hammer one with a 6.5-300 Wby, but I think that the 300 Win Mag with 190 grain bullets is a safer choice. The proven choice with good shot placement is a hand loaded 180 Partition out of a Model 70 in a 300 WSM. Get the tag, get close enough to take a shot that you are comfortable to get a clean kill and use a suitable cartridge out of a gun that you are familiar with, or, go with an outfitter and use their long range killing rig at 300-1000 yards.
 
kyotekiller25 said:
I don't think you're giving enough credit to the bigger 7 mags. They'll do anything the 300 mags will do, save a few hundred lbs of energy, with a lot less recoil at that.

To get the same ballistics as a good 7 mag with a 180, you have to step up to a lot bigger 30 cal case and bullet, like 300 RUM with 215+ Doing so only nets you a few hundred ft pounds energy and a whole lot more recoil. Not exactly a great trade off within most reasonable ranges in my opinion to warrant the difference anyway.

I've had all the 7/30/33 mags and super mags, and I've found a new favorite LR hammer in the 7-300 Win mag with a 180g ELDM at 3100fps. It ain't no slouch compared to the 30 and 33 mags, and it recoils a whole hell of a lot less. And the elk haven't seemed to notice the difference either.
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They do work. No doubt about it. I have built a ton and owned many 7mms. But there is a difference. As you go down in bore size the cartridge has to get more over bore or less efficient to maintain its ballistics. You could compare a 28 nosler to a 338 lapua imp. The 28 is awesome, for about 600 rounds. Every 100 or so your moving the bullet and adding powder to keep up with throat wear. In the same 600 rounds the 338 has hardy changed at all. It just shoots without any fuss. Its like a 6br, easy. Aside from the tunability, its my experience the bigger bores kill faster. I talked with Jeff Brozovich about this. He has more terminal data on elk than anyone I know. When they switched to 7mms for a year, the follow up shots increased dramatically. I think they took 40-50 elk before switching back to the 30s.
 
Alex Wheeler said:
They do work. No doubt about it. I have built a ton and owned many 7mms. But there is a difference. As you go down in bore size the cartridge has to get more over bore or less efficient to maintain its ballistics. You could compare a 28 nosler to a 338 lapua imp. The 28 is awesome, for about 600 rounds. Every 100 or so your moving the bullet and adding powder to keep up with throat wear. In the same 600 rounds the 338 has hardy changed at all. It just shoots without any fuss. Its like a 6br, easy. Aside from the tunability, its my experience the bigger bores kill faster. I talked with Jeff Brozovich about this. He has more terminal data on elk than anyone I know. When they switched to 7mms for a year, the follow up shots increased dramatically. I think they took 40-50 elk before switching back to the 30s.
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I can agree to most of that. Ive been around 200 killed and definitely notice the bigger reaction from the 30/33 cals. Not to say the 7s don't work, because they do, but the elk just seem to notice the difference. So far with my 7-300 Win Mag, they've all been 1 shot DRT drops and the elk haven't noticed it was a 7mm or 338 at that point.
 
Many guys keep shooting until the elk is down. Thats probably a good idea. With the smaller bores you seem to have more time to do that even though the first shot would have done the job. With the bigger bores, .30 and up they just go down faster. I like to see that. Nothing to do with tracking them, I just like to think the faster they die the less pain they feel. Most likely they are out before they know what happened. Hate seeing them hunched up.
 
Completely agree. It's all about respect for our wildlife and outdoors. Hunters need to be honest about their ability and limits.
 
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