electronic scale ??

[Texas Solo]

second, for the unlearned, that do not bump or move the pan after adding powder.....
if your beam scale is magnetically dampened...learn to bump the pan after every add...
look up this word........
hysteresis......
a retardation of an effect when the forces acting upon a body are changed
the tendancy of the beam to NOT move due to the magnetic field .........
solo just learned a lesson...

Interesting theory, and yes, I did look it up. Not sure how this explains why my issue just began, but bumping the beam a tad is what I began doing. At least doing that gives me a warm & fuzzy. I'll keep an eye on it. Thanks.

 

[snakepit]

My GEMPRO 250 is a good electronic scale and is my primary scale. You will need a different powder pan as the small black plastic one is to small and plastic is bad for static electricity. I just use the metal one from my old Hornady scale which is my backup scale. I do check the calibration every so many rounds, probably too often but it is a quick procedure. Another thing I do not like is the clear plastic cover, it is too small to use espically if you use a different powder pan. It is a great scale for the price.

 

[timeout]

I use a Gempro 250. Perfect, no, but once you use it awhile it is pretty decent. I know there are better ones out there, but I can't afford/justify them. By the way, I trickle up. I am fairly fussy about precision in reloading and this combination works for me. If I were shooting 1000 yd. competition, perhaps not? Hope this helps.

 

[normmatzen]

I have three beam scales. The cheapest is a Lee and the best is an old Ohaus.

I haven't found a great difference in all three except I believe the Lee is the most accurate but has a lousy indicator needle. The other two are VERY finicky as to position of the fulcrum in the stone as the zero will shift. I never trusted any of the 3 to the 1 pellet of Varget I adjust to.

I just got a GemPro 250 and I have a new life!!

I plugged it in and walked away and came back the next day, did a full scale and linearity adjustment , zeroed tare for my old tin pan and started loading the last 50 rounds I will use next week for the Sacramento National long range BR meet.

I checked zero often and checked accuracy with some check weights. SPOT ON! Now I trust my trickle up to weight within 1 pellet which is just about the accuracy of the scale, +/- 0.02 gr.

I have had NO problems in 50 loads. That isn't much, but if I was using my old Ohaus, I would re-zero every 15-20 rounds and still not trust it any better than +/- 0.1 gr. I kept the doors closed in my garage, had a fluorescent light on about 4' over the scale and no RF sources. I do not unplug the unit and only turn it off if I won't use it for a week or so.. The readings I was getting on the GemPro were very stable. I just had to modify my procedure a bit to match the new scale. Oh!Yes! I turned off the auto off feature and use it on the 0.02 read-out mode.

 

[Lapua40X]

I spent some time working with a company that produced extremely accurate electronic controls for commercial air and NASA. Unless you're in a position to spend the bucks for high linear accuracy that might be found in some laboratory electronic scales, don't waste your money. Here's a test. Zero your electronic scale to any given weight. Drop individual grains of power onto the scale and see how may pieces of powder it takes to generate a change in the readout. Repeat at a few other zero settings. Do the same test with your beam scale. The results of your test and cost comparison will tell you which scale you want to use.

 

[ar10ar15man]

i think you are correct with std reloading electronic scales and reloading beam scales...
BUT
when you move up to the gem pro , the mx 123 and gd503..its not about cost..it is about what works.....the first time and evrery time with confidence.....

I spent some time working with a company that produced extremely accurate electronic controls for commercial air and NASA. Unless you're in a position to spend the bucks for high linear accuracy that might be found in some laboratory electronic scales, don't waste your money. Here's a test. Zero your electronic scale to any given weight. Drop individual grains of power onto the scale and see how may pieces of powder it takes to generate a change in the readout. Repeat at a few other zero settings. Do the same test with your beam scale. The results of your test and cost comparison will tell you which scale you want to use.

 

[rvn1968]

There is no reason that you cannot get good results with a 10-10 scale.Have it cleaned and tuned by a pro and keep it covered when not in use.A small amount of dust at the pivot can screw you up big time.You (op) did not say what the 25g was for:a CM1500 can put you close enough on many pistol loads: it works for my 45's and 44's.

 

[BoydAllen]

The magnetic force that damps a 10-10 is not present when the scale beam is not moving, and when it does, it is in proportion to the rate of movement. As the beams oscillation slows the damping force is reduced till when it stops, there is no force being exerted to hold it in place. It is free to balance as if there were no magnets. Here is a link to a discussion. On of the early replies was wrong, but right after there are some correct ones.
http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-687832.html

 

[ar10ar15man]

boyd..
it appears contrary to the definition....resists change

contrary to actual use....small adds to a beam scale not moving the beam...but if bumped the beam does move and settle at a new spot...

anything other than the one guys statement ??

inquiring minds want to know

The magnetic force that damps a 10-10 is not present when the scale beam is not moving, and when it does, it is in proportion to the rate of movement. As the beams oscillation slows the damping force is reduced till when it stops, there is no force being exerted to hold it in place. It is free to balance as if there were no magnets. Here is a link to a discussion. On of the early replies was wrong, but right after there are some correct ones.
http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-687832.html

 

[ar10ar15man]

or better yet read what it says and the definition of hysteresis.

"when it stops, there is no force being exerted to hold it in place."
it is resistance to change from its balanced position...to move from where it is at...

The magnetic force that damps a 10-10 is not present when the scale beam is not moving, and when it does, it is in proportion to the rate of movement. As the beams oscillation slows the damping force is reduced till when it stops, there is no force being exerted to hold it in place. It is free to balance as if there were no magnets. Here is a link to a discussion. On of the early replies was wrong, but right after there are some correct ones.
http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-687832.html

 

[BoydAllen]

I did http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/solids/hyst.html
,and it does not apply to this situation. Copper is not attracted by a magnet, nor can it be magnetized. In choosing the reference for my previous post, I looked for the simplest correct explanation, because a full length discussion of what takes place would undoubtedly exceed the interest of many readers of a shooting forum. As to the situation where a small addition to the pan is less than its sensitivity, this is caused by simple friction where a dull edge meets the agate bearing. If the knife edges are properly sharpened, this is pretty much done away with. When you moved the scale, and it resettled to a new position, it went through a series of decreasing movements till it got to a place where the friction was greater than the momentum and unbalanced force. With a really out of tune scale, the beam will stop in different places depending on how the weight was placed on the scale.

Added later: Look starting toward the end of the second line, in the third paragraph, under "explanation".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddy_current

 

[ar10ar15man]

your first definition is of MAGNETIC materials..so not what we are looking at.

i do not see the connection to eddy currents in the magnetic dampening of the scale....

i am still listening.....

 

[ridgeway]

I did http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/solids/hyst.html
,and it does not apply to this situation. Copper is not attracted by a magnet, nor can it be magnetized. In choosing the reference for my previous post, I looked for the simplest correct explanation, because a full length discussion of what takes place would undoubtedly exceed the interest of many readers of a shooting forum. As to the situation where a small addition to the pan is less than its sensitivity, this is caused by simple friction where a dull edge meets the agate bearing. If the knife edges are properly sharpened, this is pretty much done away with. When you moved the scale, and it resettled to a new position, it went through a series of decreasing movements till it got to a place where the friction was greater than the momentum and unbalanced force. With a really out of tune scale, the beam will stop in different places depending on how the weight was placed on the scale.

Added later: Look starting toward the end of the second line, in the third paragraph, under "explanation".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddy_current

Boyd, I'm with you on friction causing the sticking of a beam scale. I've stoned and polished mine a tiny bit and pretty much gone.

 

[BoydAllen]

Point me to a link that has the definition that corresponds to your use of the word. I think that you are using the wrong term to describe what is happening. The reference that I gave, applies directly. Eddy currents are created when a conductor passes through a magnetic field, and their pattern produces a magnetic force in the opposite direction to the direction of movement through the magnetic field.

 

[bigedp51]

your first definition is of MAGNETIC materials..so not what we are looking at.

i do not see the connection to eddy currents in the magnetic dampening of the scale....

i am still listening.....

Pitching Pennies into a Magnet
Kirk T. McDonald
Joseph Henry Laboratories, Princeton University, Princeton, NJ 08544
(Jan. 15, 1997)
1 Problem
If one pitches a penny into a large magnet, eddy currents are induced in the penny, and their interaction with the magnetic field results in a repulsive force, according to Lenz’ law.

Pitching Pennies into a Magnet
http://puhep1.princeton.edu/~mcdonald/examples/pennies.pdf

Magnetic Damping
Kirk T. McDonald
Joseph Henry Laboratories, Princeton University, Princeton, NJ 08544
(April 14, 2012)

In the present problem the magnetic field is spatially uniform, so the magnetic flux through a moving loop does not change, and no eddy currents develop. Yet, there exists a very weak magnetic-damping effect, as discussed below.
The cube has mass m = ρa3, where ρ is the mass density of copper, so in the absence of the magnetic field it oscillates vertically with angular frequency

http://www.hep.princeton.edu/~mcdonald/examples/eddy.pdf

In other words "Bazinga" : Are YOU listening NOW...........



Sorry bozo699 the Devil made me do it. :

Jimmy Cagney also explained eddy currents in the movie "White Heat"
"Come and get me, Copper " ;D

 

[ar10ar15man]

gentlemen,
that clearly explains how DAMPENING works to slow the beam movement, quicker....

it does not address getting the beam to move again....which is what i have been talking about...

the resistance to change....hysteresis.....


"cone and get me copper"...you are sick very sick...lol

 

[ridgeway]

gentlemen,
that clearly explains how DAMPENING works to slow the beam movement, quicker....

it does not address getting the beam to move again....which is what i have been talking about...

the resistance to change....hysteresis.....


"cone and get me copper"...you are sick very sick...lol

Its been iterated several times. Friction is the direct cause of the beam sticking and two solutions. One, like you mentioned earlier, giving it a tap. Another, more permanent solution would be to stone and polish the knife edge of the balance beam. Or send it to Scott Parker.

 

[FroggyOne2]

Ed,

Does this have anything with someone taking the Copper Clappers?

 

[Texas Solo]

Thank you gentlemen for all the replies and discussion. Having read every reply, I think I fixed it
I came to believe that the only point of friction could be at the knife edge of the beam axle.
It also made sense to me that magnetic dampening could serve to further the root problem.
I cleaned the beam again and the seat it rests in, this time with something more than just a rag, I used some brake cleaner. I then stoned the knife edge and polished.

Problem solved. I've just loaded 50 rounds without a hitch. I drop Varget to 24.5 then trickle up to 25.0. It read every add as smooth as it ever did. I checked my zero every 10 rounds...dead on.

I apologize for my ignorance in not realizing that just because you can't see the dirt, doesn't mean it isn't there. I haven't been keeping my scale covered, lesson learned there too. Thanks guys, your awesome!

 

[bigedp51]

Ed,

Does this have anything with someone taking the Copper Clappers?

It has nothing to do with "The Copper Clapper Caper"................

"BUT" I'm in hysterics just thinking about a reloading scale called the ar10ar15man Bump-O-Matic.