Here are my feelings on the subject, I have both a beam scale and an affordable electronic scale. I just received my old Ohaus 5-0-5 back from Scott Parker. I thought I would use my electronic scale to check the accuracy of my beam scale. As it turns out, I'm using my beam scale to keep my electric scale on point. I place a certified check weight on my beam scale and it's always dead nuts, for me that would be less than a tenth. Since Scott Parker told me to throw charges about 3 to 4 tenths of a grain low and always trickle up to weight my E.S. and S.D's have dropped considerably. Now I basically use the electronic scale for sorting cases. I believe in being as accurate as I can but I also believe that when I'm making a shot at 600 or 1000yds. there are many more things that can greatly influence my shot placement more than .01 grains of powder.
Electronic or beam scale
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"but I also believe that when I'm making a shot at 600 or 1000yds. there are many more things that can greatly influence my shot placement more than .01 grains of powder. "
Amen to that - and maybe even could say "more than 0.1 grains".
One thing about balance beam scales that no one (except some) seems to think about is that they are made for right handed people!*
Out of the balance beams I've used, I gave high marks to the Hornady as it's beam was longer than most giving it greater sensitivity. I have a cheap electronic scale ($29.95 was it?) that works surprisingly well and it's quite repeatable when I check it with a reference weight.
*Several years ago, I came up with a revolutionary & advanced design for a balance beam scale but never had the time or $$ to develop it - anyone interested in developing this very marketable product can contact me.
Amen to that - and maybe even could say "more than 0.1 grains".
One thing about balance beam scales that no one (except some) seems to think about is that they are made for right handed people!*
Out of the balance beams I've used, I gave high marks to the Hornady as it's beam was longer than most giving it greater sensitivity. I have a cheap electronic scale ($29.95 was it?) that works surprisingly well and it's quite repeatable when I check it with a reference weight.
*Several years ago, I came up with a revolutionary & advanced design for a balance beam scale but never had the time or $$ to develop it - anyone interested in developing this very marketable product can contact me.
I went to the GP 250 after Scott Parker told me that he could not tune my RCBS 5-0-5 scale to be anymore accurate. He said he would do it for me but would be wasting my $$. Sounded like an honest guy and I took his advice and didn't get the scale tuned. Now I really like my Gem Pro 250. I am about to add a Dandy Omega trickler to use and should be very nice combo to work with
Thought I'd drag these out of the "Daily Bulletin" archive for any new reloaders who might have missed them first time round. This is my 502 scales.
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2011/05/forum-member-rigs-video-display-for-balance-beam-scale/
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2012/07/monitor-balance-beam-with-magnified-image-on-smartphone/
I'm a firm believer in beam scale for powder but I'm happy to use digital for bullets and cases.
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2011/05/forum-member-rigs-video-display-for-balance-beam-scale/
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2012/07/monitor-balance-beam-with-magnified-image-on-smartphone/
I'm a firm believer in beam scale for powder but I'm happy to use digital for bullets and cases.
Ya! I'm an engineer. So, my thought processes are a bit different them most folks.
I look at my old Ohaus scale as un-satisfactory for two reasons. 1. It is a 500gr scale and I use it at 30-60 grains. I would/was using this scale at 10% of its full range and the set-points can be off 0.1gr. 2. I can see 1-2 pellets of Varget on the scale . But, I found I have to reset the actual position of the beam pivot each weigh or my accuracy as measured with 20gr and 10 gr check weights can quickly go to 0.1 gr.
Actually, I have 3 beam scales, the Ohaus, an old Redding oil damped balance my dad used back in the 60s and 70s and a Lee powder scale. Ironically, I found the Lee, with 100gr full scale, the most accurate and stable mechanically, but the indicator needle and mark was not "right" to me.
So, I just started using a GemPro 250 and haven't looked back. I turn it on at least 12 hours before I use it, calibrate both full scale and linearity and set Tare. I am careful to eliminate drafts and my flourescent light is 4 ' or so above the scale which sits on a heavy 18" sq floor tile and the supplied cushion and is carefully leveled. I have to date not found the zero to drift during a loading session or finding the check weights not spot on often during my loading session. I drop slightly low and trickle up to the exact weight within one pellet. Now, I know my performance next week at Sacramento is all up to me! I have a fantastic barrel, the best bullets I have used based on statistical measuring, a good NF scope and use Lapua cases in a Kiff chamber, chambered by the best gunsmith in Sacramento, Stu. So, No more excuses!
I look at my old Ohaus scale as un-satisfactory for two reasons. 1. It is a 500gr scale and I use it at 30-60 grains. I would/was using this scale at 10% of its full range and the set-points can be off 0.1gr. 2. I can see 1-2 pellets of Varget on the scale . But, I found I have to reset the actual position of the beam pivot each weigh or my accuracy as measured with 20gr and 10 gr check weights can quickly go to 0.1 gr.
Actually, I have 3 beam scales, the Ohaus, an old Redding oil damped balance my dad used back in the 60s and 70s and a Lee powder scale. Ironically, I found the Lee, with 100gr full scale, the most accurate and stable mechanically, but the indicator needle and mark was not "right" to me.
So, I just started using a GemPro 250 and haven't looked back. I turn it on at least 12 hours before I use it, calibrate both full scale and linearity and set Tare. I am careful to eliminate drafts and my flourescent light is 4 ' or so above the scale which sits on a heavy 18" sq floor tile and the supplied cushion and is carefully leveled. I have to date not found the zero to drift during a loading session or finding the check weights not spot on often during my loading session. I drop slightly low and trickle up to the exact weight within one pellet. Now, I know my performance next week at Sacramento is all up to me! I have a fantastic barrel, the best bullets I have used based on statistical measuring, a good NF scope and use Lapua cases in a Kiff chamber, chambered by the best gunsmith in Sacramento, Stu. So, No more excuses!
bozo699
Gold $$ Contributor
BoydAllen said:
People that think that .1 doesn't make a difference at 1000 yards has never shot at 1000 yards or at least they have not competed and stayed competitive with not caring any more about there charges then that. I am going the GD503 route I have tuned balance and a Vic 123, I way prefer the tuned balance over the 123 but I know the 503 will be much better , I think in the next year or two I will go Prometheus II this is such a impressive and fast scale!
Wayne.
Wayne,
You may find the Prometheus faster than the 503 but I don't think more accurate. The 503 is really in a class by itself when you compare it to the older strain gauge type scales.
I saw where the Omega powder trickler is now available in an automatic version. The Sinclair add says it can be used with a beam type (easy to see in the photo) as well as an electronic scale. I would really like to know how it is going to work automatically with an electronic scale. any thoughts?
Bob
You may find the Prometheus faster than the 503 but I don't think more accurate. The 503 is really in a class by itself when you compare it to the older strain gauge type scales.
I saw where the Omega powder trickler is now available in an automatic version. The Sinclair add says it can be used with a beam type (easy to see in the photo) as well as an electronic scale. I would really like to know how it is going to work automatically with an electronic scale. any thoughts?
Bob
bozo699
Gold $$ Contributor
I would think it would not either, I think they are trying to copy the one made in England and they work on a balance scale, again prabably verry accurate out to 500 yards or so but for 600 to 1000 I think every Kernal counts, I have a tuned 10/10 and 5/10 and also a 304, they all work fine in conjunction with my Omega but I want an accurate digital scale and the 123 is accurate I feel it just needs zeroed every time and sometimes more then once, it drifts badly, I can't trust it so going with the 503 for sure, I have not heard one bad thing about it so far, I though I would contact Jaychris and get his thoughts on any possible problems or issues I might waych for and just be done with all the b.s and get it comingBob3700 said:
Wayne.
BoydAllen
Gold $$ Contributor
I have one of the automatic tricklers that is designed to work with a beam scale, the one that is made in this country, and I don't see how it could work with and electronic scale, since it has an LED and sensor that are blocked by the beam. Frankly, I think that except for 1,000 yd, and other types of long range competition, that it would give better results than most shooters will be able to see, due to other factors. This video is by the fellow that makes it. Enjoy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eF-jL2kJRUc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eF-jL2kJRUc
I only recommend beam scales, any and all can tout the GemPro, Acculab, or GD whatever, but my Gen 2 Prometheus is fast, and accurate, exact charge within 1/3 kernel accuracy every 8-10 seconds, I would rather spend my spare time shooting, than reloading.
bozo699
Gold $$ Contributor
Brian,brian427cobra said:
I can go the $1200 for the 503 this year but I am not sure on the kind you have but I think I read there over 3K but I have watched the videos and your right, I have much better things to spend my time on rather then stare at a scale so I imagine it's just a matter of time and one of those big beams will be on my bench also, on a serious note have you had any issues with it or any complaints whatsoever, I would like to know in advance about any problems that might occur with it.
Wayne.
just for general info.
I've been tuning up my old RCBS 304 and in the process learned that unlike most balance scales it does appear to be temp sensetive. Looking at it now it makes a bit of sense... the coil spring behind the 1/10" dial looks remarkably similar to the coils used in old thermostats. (different materials of course)
I've been tuning up my old RCBS 304 and in the process learned that unlike most balance scales it does appear to be temp sensetive. Looking at it now it makes a bit of sense... the coil spring behind the 1/10" dial looks remarkably similar to the coils used in old thermostats. (different materials of course)
Wayne,
I know a guy that has a Prometheus and he absolutely loves his, I wish I could afford one! Anyone out there want to help a cause?
I know a guy that has a Prometheus and he absolutely loves his, I wish I could afford one! Anyone out there want to help a cause?
bozo699 said:
Wayne I have not had any issues what so ever with mine, on facebook we have a owner only page where suggestions are made, the owner of the page referrs the ideas on to Brand, there have been some really good ideas that Brand has used and incorperated
Alex Wheeler
Site $$ Sponsor
bozo699 said:
Wayne is right. Do the testing. At 1k .1 gr is worth 1.5'' of vertical in my dasher. Get sloppy and you have 3'' of vertical from powder charge alone, add mirage, bullet b.c. variation, primer variation, exc. and you will never be competitive.
bozo699 said:
Honing the knives and trying to align the bearings has been the main focus.
The bearings appear to be in decent shape but I only have a 10x magnifier so there could be some flaws I can't see. All four bearings had come unglued from the frame so I'm sure there are some alignment issues. I've been experimenting with ways to hold them in perfect alignment before I try to re-bed them. I can align the V block surfaces on a ground shaft but that won't stop them from twisting around the shaft. I'll probably just end up grinding a tool blank to fit the V blocks and using a using small sacrificial o-rings to hold everything in place while bedding.
The knives, especially the pan fulcrum knife, were in pretty rough shape. I used a flat diamond stone to hone them.
Other than that I just disassembled and cleaned the important parts. It's swinging pretty freely now even though the bearings are still just sitting on the old bedding, but it's still hard to trust without tapping the frame a couple of times after it has settled. Oh yeah, I tried adding a needle to the balance for a better visual indicator but I found that the added weight caused some errors with the tenth dial that I am not smart enough to fix. for instance, 20 on the tens weight with 10 on the dial would not read the same as 30 on the ones with 0 on the dial. I ended up glueing the needle pointer to the frame instead and I think it works pretty well.
BoydAllen
Gold $$ Contributor
If you start with the frame of the scale adjusted so your unmodified pointer is exactly on zero, pull the beam off, modify the pointer, put the beam back, and add small weights to the pan till it is again perfectly zeroed, and then add those weights to those that are trapped in the pan holder, you should be fine. I do not have a 304, so I am guessing on the very last step, based on my 10-10.
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