drilling rifle bullets to improve terminal ballistics

[Albany Mountain]

When one starts applying benchrest components/techniques, towards hunting environments, it shows a lack of education of whats required and what is not reliable conditions in the field. You can design rests, muzzle brakes, barrels, actions, scopes, bullets to provide the most consistancy in a controlled environment. But step out into the elk playgrounds, you are going to face reality and straight physics in that the wind, the timing element, humidity, the distance, the elevation and temperature, the sagebrush growing in front of you and realize that only a good supported hold, trigger squeeze, reliable expanding bullet and cartridge, and knowledge of drop or point of aim sighting, is going to insure your success.
I ended up with a light rifle, a sturdy scope and slingshot scope cover with heavy crosshairs, to leave me physically ready to make a shot with a 270 Winchester bullet designed to kill, not group in the ones. We see way too often, self appointed experts that buy everything that can bolted on top of unused sling swivels while slinging their camera gear, wind indicators and mega thousand dollar scope and rifle to create the perfect video, which includes the perfect shot. Funny that I never see the videos of animals hit and running off into the brush to start a hours long recovery session that may not be successful.

 

[jelenko]

Yeah, we had to write it all out on the oversized green and white paper with the lines of rectangles, one uppercase character per rectangle, before we were allowed to punch the cards. . . .

I never did get my program to run.

 

[Wild Bill IV]

I have previously posted elsewhere about drilling rifle-bullet tips to improve terminal ballistics, a practice that's been around since at least when Dr. Martin Fackler (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Fackler), founder of the US Army's Wound Ballistics Laboratory, experimented with it and documented the results in a 1995 article in the Wound Ballistics Review. (Hollow-tipped bullets have been around for over a century. I don't know if manufacturers have ever drilled bullets to create a hollow tip.)

Some hunters continue to hunt with target bullets, and even some hunting bullets, that don't expand effectively. (The Berger 156-grain 6.5mm Extreme Outer Limits bullet is an example. Per a Barbour Creek video on YouTube, that bullet travels over a foot in ballistic gel before initiating expansion. Most Berger hunting bullets similarly tested in YouTube videos start expanding an inch or two into the gel.) Drilling such bullets properly can improve their terminal ballistics for hunting. Without intending to advocate for this practice in any particular case, I have prepared the attached document about the history of the practice, and about my own procedure and successes doing it.

Back in the early 80's, I had mini-14's. They were 1:10 twist barrels. At that time, most 224 barrel were 1:14 and 1:12 including the Colt AR-15's. The heaviest bullets at that time were Hornady 60HP, SGK 63 Semi-spitzer, or Speers 70RN core lock. The minis loved the longer bearing surface 63's and 70's. But for prairie dog hunting, those bullets zipped right through them. As an experiment, I made a slip over bullet sleeve and reamed the top of the sleeve to act as a drill bushing for a No. 1 center drill. Added a set screw collar to the center drill to act as a drill stop. Those bullets sent prairie dog body part flipping and flopping in the air out to 250 yards!!! At 350 yards, the dogs would fall down, roll over and slowly pull themselves towards the mounts. They would roll over dead after 10 second! After examine them, there was only a drop of blood on the exit. The bullets were so hot that they cauterized the wound!! Yes, the wide opening from the center drill taper created to much air friction and almost melted the lead cores!!!

I would recommend making heavier hunting bullets varmint bullets by center drilling, but strongly advocate against using target bullets on big game!!! Use the proper designed hunting bullets for game you are hunting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The original posters article was military target bullets (FMJ) being hollow pointed. The Geneva Convention strictly prohibits military use of hollow points!!! Even for sniper use!!!!! So, this line of though is pointless!!!

Bill

 

[TTE]

IMO .... drilling bullets to make hollow points just creates a large surface wound.

IF you are hunting anything larger than Coyotes, you need real hunting bullets.

And for my money Swift A Frames are the finest soft pointed hunting bullets on this or any other planet.

 

[GotRDid]

Back in the early 80's, I had mini-14's. They were 1:10 twist barrels. At that time, most 224 barrel were 1:14 and 1:12 including the Colt AR-15's. The heaviest bullets at that time were Hornady 60HP, SGK 63 Semi-spitzer, or Speers 70RN core lock. The minis loved the longer bearing surface 63's and 70's. But for prairie dog hunting, those bullets zipped right through them. As an experiment, I made a slip over bullet sleeve and reamed the top of the sleeve to act as a drill bushing for a No. 1 center drill. Added a set screw collar to the center drill to act as a drill stop. Those bullets sent prairie dog body part flipping and flopping in the air out to 250 yards!!! At 350 yards, the dogs would fall down, roll over and slowly pull themselves towards the mounts. They would roll over dead after 10 second! After examine them, there was only a drop of blood on the exit. The bullets were so hot that they cauterized the wound!! Yes, the wide opening from the center drill taper created to much air friction and almost melted the lead cores!!!

I would recommend making heavier hunting bullets varmint bullets by center drilling, but strongly advocate against using target bullets on big game!!! Use the proper designed hunting bullets for game you are hunting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The original posters article was military target bullets (FMJ) being hollow pointed. The Geneva Convention strictly prohibits military use of hollow points!!! Even for sniper use!!!!! So, this line of though is pointless!!!

https://www.reddit.com/r/WarCollege/comments/sfp9us

The current issue SDM/Sniper/SASS ammunition does indeed use hollow point or Open Tip Match bullets. The sole purpose is to increase accuracy.

 

[WSnyder]

Berger OTM’s “the U.S. military uses open-tip match ammunition in some sniper rifles for exceptional accuracy, which is argued not to be prohibited by military conventions as it produces wounds similar to full metal jacket ammunition in practice.”

 

[WSnyder]

Berger cried foul for years over people using the original VLD’s on game but guess what? They worked so well they became a hunting bullet!!! Who’d a known that would happen???

 

[Wild Bill IV]

https://www.reddit.com/r/WarCollege/comments/sfp9us

The current issue SDM/Sniper/SASS ammunition does indeed use hollow point or Open Tip Match bullets. The sole purpose is to increase accuracy.

DOD allows hollow points for antiterrorism use but it is forbidden to use in wartime!!! They do allow a specially designed 9mm HP in war time since the bullet does not deform, explode, or fragment!!!

FMJ bullets can be as accurate, if not more accurate than HP!!! I have shot 1947 (red seal) Military Match 30Caliber (165 grain Match FMJBT, 30-06) Ammunition in an air gauge Springfield 03A3!!! The bullet tip is blunt by design, not sharp pointed. Could hit 5gal steel cans at over 600 yards open sights!!! 55 gal drums at over 1000!! My Dad brought home 3 ammo cans (1500 rounds) from surplus deposits while teaching field artillery in 47 states in his NG duties. When you pull a bullet you can see what makes those bullet deadly accurate!!! It is not the tip, it is the design of the base that makes them accurate!!!! It is a 3 rounded edge, straight BT, with a concave cup at the base!!!! This reduces drag at the base and changes the balance of the bullet to fly a true tangential path instead of the slight upward yawing of civilian made target bullets which causes more drag through more profile exposure to the air!!

The military has advanced ballistics labs and they know more about bullet design for decades than civilian bullet makers! They know Coefficients of Drag (CD from one of my dad's old field artillery slide rules)! BC is based on a theoretical model where CD is based on testing!! They also know a taper barrel is more accurate than bulls!! Look at the big guns!!! 14" guns on battleship, 155mm, tank and tracked artillery all have tapered barrels!!! Even the small arms sniper/counter sniper rifles are tapered!!! They know about barrel muzzle whip and tuning through taper!!!!! They have the formulas for determining the taper!!!!

 

[Wild Bill IV]

I never did get my program to run.

Program! Singular!!! I had 12 programs!! The last program was dealing out 52 card, 4 player Black Jack cards (random number generation) and using logic to pass or draw!!!!

 

[GotRDid]

Back in the early 80's, I had mini-14's. They were 1:10 twist barrels. At that time, most 224 barrel were 1:14 and 1:12 including the Colt AR-15's. The heaviest bullets at that time were Hornady 60HP, SGK 63 Semi-spitzer, or Speers 70RN core lock. The minis loved the longer bearing surface 63's and 70's. But for prairie dog hunting, those bullets zipped right through them. As an experiment, I made a slip over bullet sleeve and reamed the top of the sleeve to act as a drill bushing for a No. 1 center drill. Added a set screw collar to the center drill to act as a drill stop. Those bullets sent prairie dog body part flipping and flopping in the air out to 250 yards!!! At 350 yards, the dogs would fall down, roll over and slowly pull themselves towards the mounts. They would roll over dead after 10 second! After examine them, there was only a drop of blood on the exit. The bullets were so hot that they cauterized the wound!! Yes, the wide opening from the center drill taper created to much air friction and almost melted the lead cores!!!

I would recommend making heavier hunting bullets varmint bullets by center drilling, but strongly advocate against using target bullets on big game!!! Use the proper designed hunting bullets for game you are hunting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The original posters article was military target bullets (FMJ) being hollow pointed. The Geneva Convention strictly prohibits military use of hollow points!!! Even for sniper use!!!!! So, this line of though is pointless!!!

Bill

Bill,
Did you mean The Hague Convention/Accord?
Likewise, I don’t think we signed on to that until early 2000s.

 

[Wild Bill IV]

Your right!!! But the Geneva convention also adopted the ban on dum dums using more defined words!!! They didn't use that term!!! Read rule 78 of the GC!!!

 

[GotRDid]

Bill, more clarity for you, Sir…

The DOD Law of War Manual Returns Hollow Point Bullets to Armed Conflict

Editor’s Note: Just Security is holding a “mini forum” on the new Defense Department Law of War Manual. This series includes posts from Sean Watts, Eric Jensen, Adil Ahmad Haque, Geoffrey Corn, Charlie Dunlap, Jr., John Dehn, Rachel VanLandingham, Gary Brown, and David Glazier, with more to...

www.justsecurity.org

 

[Wild Bill IV]

Interesting article!!! The protection of civilian harm out weights the deformation clause of the GC! That explains why the 9mm HP was adopted!! It passes through the body and will grenade on hard surface impact!!! Looks like a get in and get out fast war over rules both doctrines!!! And here I thought the GC was an absolute!!!
THANK YOU GotRDid!!!!! The DOD report I read must be outdated!!!

But, the real question we must ask about the OP is this: Does Hollow Pointing change the integrity of the bullet to stay within the parameters of what we have researched and read???

 

[GotRDid]

Your right!!! But the Geneva convention also adopted the ban on dum dums using more defined words!!! They didn't use that term!!! Read rule 78 of the GC!!!

Obviously, in WWII, the Germans/Russians had no regard for such rules/concepts.

 

[Wild Bill IV]

View attachment 1622514

Obviously, in WWII, the Germans/Russians had no regard for such rules.

You and I both know, rules will be broken in the next war!!! China will definitely break the rules first!! They make HPs ammo for their stolen M14/M1A designed sniper rifle!!!!

By the way, don't send me video/audio media!!! I'm near deaf!!!! Menierres disease has attracted the audio nerves!!!

 

[Wild Bill IV]

You and I both know, rules will be broken in the next war!!! China will definitely break the rules first!! They make HPs ammo for their stolen M14/M1A designed sniper rifle!!!!

By the way, don't send me video/audio media!!! I'm near deaf!!!! Menierres disease has attracted the audio nerves!!!

GotRDid:

After reading all the documents we have researched, how can we justify the use of tracers?? The impact on the human body could dump white hot phosphorus into the body causing extreme painful and inhumane burns internally!! Is this not fragmentation if you think about it???? No follow up needed!!! Just something to ponder!!!!! This would be diving into another rabbit hole that both of us just got out of one!!!

 

[GotRDid]

Since they are FMJ as well, no prohibitions exist for their use. But, as stated by one of the video hosts, they are “multi-vector”, as in the old saying: “Tracers work both ways.”
Likewise, the delay element still produces a slightly brighter muzzle signature when fired, particularly in belt fed weapons where every 5th round is a tracer. Certainly draw unwanted attention by enemy combatants.
The tracing compounds surely would add to the severity of the wound, particularly in the case of “catching” one after it was deflected by some object in it’s original path (read ricochet) and enough speed bled off to actually stop in a body.
Perhaps the logic is that it’s primary purpose was for fire direction/correction and not the secondary effects.

 

[Todd Morley]

A few weeks ago I hunted ewe aoudad with Berger 190 Long Range Hybrid Target bullets loaded to about 2,850 fps at the muzzle of my 280 AI. I had drilled the bullets to 0.0465" and trimmed them with my benchrest meplat trimmer, as reported earlier in this thread. I harvested two ewes, one at 350 yards, the other at 390. The first fell where it stood (DRT), a high shoulder shot breaking both shoulders. I pulled the second shot and hit a hind quarter, so the second animal fell where it stood but managed to stand again when I approached to within five yards, and stumbled downhill about 50 yards before expiring. Expansion was not as dramatic as the gel test led me to expect. (I think 190 grains are way too much bullet weight for a ewe.) So I have re-drilled these bullets to 0.055" and re-trimmed them (still to the same length as before, just to uniform the tips). Here are two photos comparing the result with a (stock) Berger 180-grain VLD Hunting bullet. I'll report further terminal ballistics here when I take these bullets hunting. Perhaps I'll shoot a few at a target to (re)verify accuracy and drop, as well. As before, tip concentricity and length uniformity are better in the drilled and trimmed bullets than in the stock bullets. This time I bought some aftermarket Dremel-tool collets on Amazon and fitted the drill bit to my Dremel tool, holding the bullet in one hand and pushing the spinning bit into it with the other. Perhaps because I had pre-drilled the tips, the bit always self-centered perfectly.