Don't ask often, but please help me decide...

[Ledd Slinger]

I apologize if i get long winded with this one, but please bear with me...

I want to top off a custom long range hunting rifle I 'revamped' recently with a nice optic. I'm a little torn between two scopes at the moment. Mainly because I haven't had the chance to get either one in my hands.

The two scopes I am trying to decide between are:
1) Leica ER5 5-25x56
2) Leupold VX6 7-42x56

PROS:
Im sure they both have good glass, tho the Leica will probably have the edge in low light from some of the reviews I've read. But the Leupold has been said to equal or better NF glass.

They both have adequate elevation adjustment to get me well beyond 1K with my rifle. 50 MOA from the Leica in a 30mm tube and 55 MOA from the Leupold in a 34mm tube.

Both scopes are fairly light with the Leica coming in at 24 oz. and the Leupold at 26.3 oz. So they're both good for keeping my rifle weight acceptable when hiking in the high country.

Both have side focus, SFP, and all the other bells and whistles I'm looking for.

CONS:
On one side, I've read that the Leica has a reticle that is a little too thick which I'm not crazy about for long range shooting. On the other side, I've read that the turrets on the Leupold aren't that great.

Ive never used a scope on a hunting rifle with less than a base 6X power range so the Leica fits in my comfort zone for that with 5X. Tho the Leupold has slightly more for a base power range at 7X, just thinking about having 42X max power on a hunting rifle scope gets me pretty excited (plus a little more elevation adjustment).

Obviously the Leupold has the advantage at long range, but Leica glass has always dominated in low light from my experience of owning other Leica optics presently and in the past.

One last thing is that Im pretty sure the Leupold has a much better no hassle warranty. Leica is pretty much just lifetime manufacturer defects.

Really wish somewhere locally carried these scopes so i could evaluate them myself. But they dont, so im looking for some opinions from folks who have handled either one of these scopes, and hopefully maybe even both of them. Thanks

 

[dkhunt14]

I would check field of view. LEUPOLDS from experience were less then others. They both should be good scopes. I looked through the Leupold and the glass seems good. My buddy says the clicks hold and repeat. Never looked through the LEICA. Matt

 

[bobinpa]

I can't speak for the LEICA because I have never owned or seen one, but I do own a VX6 7-42. I agree that the clicks were "softer" but they do hold and repeat. I haven't had any complaints with that scope.

 

[hogpatrol]

What caliber rifle are you using? Remember that at 42x, with that small of an exit pupil, your eye is going to need to be very close to the eyepiece.

 

[CharlieNC]

I don't think power above 25x will be needed to adequately target the animal, and the reduction in field of view will present difficulty to use. For example shooting steel with 10 to 12x at 1000 yards is common in order to both target and spot misses. I prefer a ffp scope for consistent wind hold, and in case I want to hold elevation. In low light an illuminated reticle can be useful.

 

[msinc]

This will probably make a lot of fanboys mad, but it really is just this simple...the best Japanese/Asian {or any other} glass DOES NOT compare to the best German/European glass. Period, end of story. I have or currently own them all. It may be a close second and maybe one day it will be equal, but at this point in time they do not compare.
If you want the best performing glass on your rifle you will need to buy German/European glass. If you don't like the reticle in one brand then don't stay stuck on that brand. Look at the others that have the long range features you think you will need.
When I use the word "glass" that is exactly what I mean...the lenses, the clarity of the optical glass itself, the precision with which it is ground and the coatings. Scopes may be assembled in some other country for economic/business reasons, but the lenses themselves either were made in Asia/Japan or Europe/Germany.
I have handled/owned both scopes. The biggest difference you will easily see is low light performance. Take them outside in the evening and look through them both side by side as it gets dark out. You will continue to see thru the Leica after the Leupold gives it up. You will still be able to count the points on a 3-d archery target buck when looking thru the Leica after you can no longer tell if it even is a buck with the Leupold.
The wider field of view of the European scopes is a by product of superior ground and corrected lenses. The superior light gathering is a product of this as well as the better coatings used.

 

[fredo]

I've bought & sold ALOT of scopes in the search for 'ideal' optics for various rifles, and have come to this conclusion:

You'll never really know unless you buy & try for yourself.

 

[mikecr]

Forget glass, go with function.
Order your Leupold through the custom shop(so that it's not a counterfeit) along with fitted Alumina flip-ups and the reticle you want.

 

[msinc]

Forget glass, go with function.
Order your Leupold through the custom shop(so that it's not a counterfeit) along with fitted Alumina flip-ups and the reticle you want.

By all means forget glass...and that way when it's getting dark...you can forget shooting/hitting/killing the animal too. Also, those aluminum flip ups...absolutely a "must have"!!!! I don't know how anyone ever killed any game before those jewels came along. Aluminum flip up caps will for sure help you to shoot way more better. Yeah, just the aluminum ones though...the plastic, steel or titanium ones have never worked.

 

[JRS]

By all means forget glass...and that way when it's getting dark...you can forget shooting/hitting/killing the animal too. Also, those aluminum flip ups...absolutely a "must have"!!!! I don't know how anyone ever killed any game before those jewels came along. Aluminum flip up caps will for sure help you to shoot way more better. Yeah, just the aluminum ones though...the plastic, steel or titanium ones have never worked.

Have you had a bit too much to drink High end Japanese glass is every bit the equal of high end German glass. Look at Nightforce and March. Both use Japanese made glass. To be competitive, their products have to be on equal footing with Schott glass. They are also tied to a very stringent set of rules in the optics industry. The Aluminum Flip-Up caps add a bit of class, light weight, and protection. They aren't designed to make you a better hunter or shooter.

 

[savagedasher]

Warranty and warranty time needs to be looked at also . Larry

 

[JRS]

What is your opinion of the Leica, Tom?

 

[JRS]

Thank you, Tom

 

[Ledd Slinger]

This will probably make a lot of fanboys mad, but it really is just this simple...the best Japanese/Asian {or any other} glass DOES NOT compare to the best German/European glass. Period, end of story. I have or currently own them all. It may be a close second and maybe one day it will be equal, but at this point in time they do not compare.
If you want the best performing glass on your rifle you will need to buy German/European glass. If you don't like the reticle in one brand then don't stay stuck on that brand. Look at the others that have the long range features you think you will need.
When I use the word "glass" that is exactly what I mean...the lenses, the clarity of the optical glass itself, the precision with which it is ground and the coatings. Scopes may be assembled in some other country for economic/business reasons, but the lenses themselves either were made in Asia/Japan or Europe/Germany.
I have handled/owned both scopes. The biggest difference you will easily see is low light performance. Take them outside in the evening and look through them both side by side as it gets dark out. You will continue to see thru the Leica after the Leupold gives it up. You will still be able to count the points on a 3-d archery target buck when looking thru the Leica after you can no longer tell if it even is a buck with the Leupold.
The wider field of view of the European scopes is a by product of superior ground and corrected lenses. The superior light gathering is a product of this as well as the better coatings used.

I agree. Leica glass has always been top tier in low light performance with my experience.

Never been a Leupold fan due to the lack of low light performance and clarity when compared to high end European glass. Owned a pair of golden ring binos and hated them. Horrible in low light compared to the Leica Ultravids I also owned at the time. Also had a Mark4 scope in 4.5-14x. It was nice and clear, but that magnification wasn't cutting it for me. And when compared to a Nikon Monarch at less than half the price, in low light, it wasn't any better.

Low light performance is key with a long range hunting rifle. Some of my best deer have been shot during the last waning minutes of light as they were in route to their nightly feeding area or favorite doe hang out. Looking at a deer 200 yards and under, most scopes will give adequate low light performance. Trying to discern what a deer or elk is on high power magnification at 500 to 1000 yards takes some seriously nice glass. Just not sure if Leupold can deliver that. That's why I'm questioning it.

 

[Ledd Slinger]

Brandon, are you in town? Cody has it at the moment, but I have a Leica.

Tom

I'll be home sunday. If you have the Leica I would love to look through it. I'll give you a call when I get back. Do you have the ballistic reticle or the plex?

 

[Larryh128]

I install a Leica on a friends rifle that I re-barreled to a 300WSM for him. To give you my opinion only on the Leica, we took off a Zeiss Diavari and replaced it with the Leica. No comparison, the Leica is way better glass. Windage etc, I have no idea but it is amazingly clear. Best that my eyes have ever peered through.

 

[Gabe22BR]

I like my Leupold 7-42 ALOT. Hardly use it past 25 power, although I do range and spot for others. Low light is great as well, ALOT better than my NF comp scope. Thinking the larger tube has something to do with that. It has an "open crosshair" which I kinda like, to see what I'm shooting at. They do offer a custom dial turret for your load/rifle.

 

[JRS]

I like my Leupold 7-42 ALOT. Hardly use it past 25 power, although I do range and spot for others. Low light is great as well, ALOT better than my NF comp scope. Thinking the larger tube has something to do with that. It has an "open crosshair" which I kinda like, to see what I'm shooting at. They do offer a custom dial turret for your load/rifle.

Tube diameter plays no part whatsoever. Here is a good read:

www.nightforceoptics.com/news/see-light-light-transmission

 

[msinc]

Have you had a bit too much to drink High end Japanese glass is every bit the equal of high end German glass. Look at Nightforce and March. Both use Japanese made glass. To be competitive, their products have to be on equal footing with Schott glass. They are also tied to a very stringent set of rules in the optics industry. The Aluminum Flip-Up caps add a bit of class, light weight, and protection. They aren't designed to make you a better hunter or shooter.

If you believe the quality of glass is the same across the board for a Nightforce as it is for a Zeiss or Swarovski then maybe you are the cat hitting the bottle too often!!! Especially because of some "set of industry rules"....do you also believe that Leapers is a member of that group that follows the rules???? Or does Leapers have those special set of "stringent" rules that allows their glass to all be tinted yellow????
Scopes are not equal at all, not even close. They are also not competitive in most cases with each other. What you say regarding "competitive" is true, but only in the same class. European glass is certainly competitive with other European glass, it has to be to sell. Japanese glass has its place in the market, with its moderate performance, but it is cost effective for the masses. If I were to invest in scopes it would be Japanese. They work, they are affordable and since they sell way more of them {to the average guys that cannot afford or wont spend for the best}, they make more money at it....but that doesn't make them better or the same as European glass.
You would be hard pressed to find someone that has spent more money and owned more scopes than me. I have, at the very least, looked through every one of them at one time or another, owned most and hunted with many. Buy what you like and be a fanboy, but you cant get upset when the rest of the world don't buy your B.S. Honestly, I have to say that anyone who believes a Nightforce is as good or comparable to a PMII {especially because of some mystery set of rules in the optics world} that is not a matter of alcohol...it's more like LSD!!!!

The glass is up to the Leica name, phenomenal.Tom

Read these words carefully and try to remember the last time you saw anyone that is familiar with scopes and not just a fanboy ever write this in regards to Leupold or Nightforce. I'll make it easy for you...never!!!!

 

[dkhunt14]

To me the best low light scope is Swarovski, bar none. We don't shoot at anything long range in the last hour. It would be too hard to find in the dark. Almost impossible to guide somebody in, in the darkness.

The lenses, diameter of the adjective lense and coatings is what makes some better then others. Matt