Was at a range today that we could shoot out to 1000 yards. Did great out to 800 but after that I ran out of scope which doesn't make sense. Shooting a 308 savage model 12 FTR with 30 moa base and a Nightforce NXS 12x42-56 scope with Hornady 168 Amax 42.4 of varget powder, Winchester primer, Hornady match brass 2836 fps. Any ideas on why I would run out of scope and couldn't hit 1000?
Doesn't make Sense
- Thread starter Slapp
- Start date
Slow bullet speed ? Are sure of the bases and there on the proper way ?
Well, for one thing that's a ridiculously small load of Varget for that weight bullet. So I'm thinking the bullet just runs out of steam and falls down at 822 yards.
Lone Hunter
Silver $$ Contributor
This also I would like to know. I believe this scope has 45 moa adjustment. With the 30 moa base that should be 75 moa. You should be roughly dialing up 32-35 moa. The only thing I could think of is you base is backwards if that is possible and I don't think your screw holes would mate up. I'm with lawman29 on this also. How much did you come up from 100? Also a link to good info by others on this site.
http://forum.accurateshooter.com/th...-of-scope-travel-to-reach-1000-yards.3908882/
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This is what I was thinking???
284winner
Silver $$ Contributor
Agreed. 45 minimum of varget plus thinking the 175 or 155 may be a better choice for optimum 1000 yd.
I'm not sure you understand the concept of canted rails and changes in adjustments. The NXS as 45MOA of adjustment travel total; that means from a mechanical 0, it can go down 22.5 MOA and it can go up 22.5MOA. This presupposes that the rail once on the rifle is perfectly parallel to the bore. Once you install the 30MOA rail, the 45MOA range of adjustment remains 45 and the mechanical 0 still has 22.5 down and 22.5 up. However, to place the scope line of sight parallel to the bore, you need to go down 30MOA, which is not possible since you only have 22.5 On the other hand, you have added 30MOA to the up direction so whereas before you had 22.5 of up, you now have 52.5 of up; the entire 45MOA of the internal adjustment of the NXS, plus the 7.5MOA that your scope even at the bottom of the adjustment has over the parallel of the bore.
To the OP:
You should have plenty of elevation with 52.5, as has already been said you should need something in the 30-34MOA range.
My guess is your bullet is going subsonic before reaching the target and is tumbling and missing the target or falling down faster.
I believe the 168 Hornady suffers from the same boat tail angle syndrome that plagues the 168SMK and so you have two things you could do to remedy the situation. One will work fine the other is iffy.
To be sure you reach 1000 yards properly, change bullets. The new Tipped 168 TMK will do fine for you if you insist on using that weight. The 175SMK will perform better and also look at the various offerings from Berger, JLK and others.
To try to increase your chances of getting to 1000 with you current bullet, use more powder. Get to 46 or so and hope that your 30 inch barrel extracts enough velocity to push the bullet fast enough.
I would switch bullets AND add more powder. My .308 load is a 210 grain JLK with more powder than you're putting in for the 168.
Ned Ludd
Silver $$ Contributor
Using your velocity numbers and some generic atmospheric inputs, the 168 A-MAX is just barely supersonic at 1000 yd. According to the JBM output, it should require about 34.1 MOA elevation from a 100 yd zero as has been mentioned. Not sure why you ran out of elevation, unless there were stability issues as has also been mentioned. I'd also check the scope travel and determine exactly how much upward elevation travel you actually have from your 100 yd zero. Optically centered, the 12-42x56 NXS should have 22.5 MOA upward travel. Subtract about 4 MOA for drop at 100 yds and you have 18.5 MOA remaining. Add in the 30 MOA rail and you should be at about 48.5 MOA remaining upward travel from your 100 yd zero. It should not have required anywhere near that much, but you can easily check from your 100 yd zero to see if that's how much you actually have. Sometimes when approaching that last couple revolutions of the elevation turret, I have had 12-42s that acted as though the turret didn't want to turn any more, even though there was still travel left. Don't go cranking the knob though, if it really is at the end of it travel you will possibly damage the scope. Look at the marking stadia beneath the turret to determine whether there is any left first. Another possibility is that your 30 MOA rail isn't. Checking the amount of upward travel remaining from your 100 yd zero may also answer this question.
Regarding your bullet choice, if you really must use a 168 gr bullet at 1000 yd, I would suggest the Berger 168 Hybrid. It has a much better BC than the 168 A-MAX (.263 vs .230 G7) and would require almost 3.5 MOA less elevation to reach 1000 yd from a 100 yd zero at the same velocity. It is fairly easy to tune and would also save you immensely on windage; 8.1 vs 9.9 MOA for a full value 10 mph wind.
Regarding your bullet choice, if you really must use a 168 gr bullet at 1000 yd, I would suggest the Berger 168 Hybrid. It has a much better BC than the 168 A-MAX (.263 vs .230 G7) and would require almost 3.5 MOA less elevation to reach 1000 yd from a 100 yd zero at the same velocity. It is fairly easy to tune and would also save you immensely on windage; 8.1 vs 9.9 MOA for a full value 10 mph wind.
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I just want to thank you all for your quick inputs, It was a stability issue the bullet was going subsonic and dropping like a rock. With that said I will keep that rifle for a 6-800 yard shooter. With that solved I now have another problem that I will create new thread on.
Again thanks for all the help.
Again thanks for all the help.
Hey you can only get so much into that case. Lol
try working up to around 44gr i bet you can hit 2950 then switch to the TMK 168gr and you will be one happy camperMy 12FTR was originally a 308 with a 30 moa base and a couple different scopes. I never had a trouble getting to 1K with 168's or 175's but found the 175's to be much better at 1K and no difference at 300 and 600. I used H4895 at iirc 2650mv. I could not notice tell any recoil difference. Barlow
You only have 40 MOA total elevation so how do you have a 30 MOA rail on it??
That's 20 up and 20 down from the middle. I would run a 15 MOA base and MAYBE you will get close to the 40.
It actually makes sense.
That's 20 up and 20 down from the middle. I would run a 15 MOA base and MAYBE you will get close to the 40.
It actually makes sense.
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