Does the 6.5x47 Lapua top the 6BR?
- Thread starter aubrey
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Thus far, in real 300m int'l competition, only two cartridges have, so far, been competitive with the 6BR: the 6x47 Swiss Match and the 6XC. The latter,6XC) with Norma factory ammo loaded with 105 Bergers actually won the world team championship in 2007.
We've seen the 6.5x47 coming close to the accuracy of the 6BR at 600 yards, and winning a big BR match or two with the 130 Bergers or 130 JLK. Shooting a 130-grainer, however, it has substantially more recoil--something to consider in position shooting where you have to hold the rifle.
We've seen the 6.5x47 coming close to the accuracy of the 6BR at 600 yards, and winning a big BR match or two with the 130 Bergers or 130 JLK. Shooting a 130-grainer, however, it has substantially more recoil--something to consider in position shooting where you have to hold the rifle.
Thanks
Is there any inherent advantage to the 6.5mm calibre which out-weighs the recoil issue? In real terms, not just on paper - doesn't look like it to me.
Looks like the 6mm is hard to beat in terms of weight/recoil vs accuracy. The other 300m derivatives are all 6mm, when they could have done anything else- they still came back to 6mm. Same for 6.5XC vs 6XC - David Tubb did all testing one could hope for and that's the conclusion.
So why does a 6mm-6.5x47 Lapua have any appeal vs a 6XC? Small primer is only difference I can see. Again is this real?
Thanks again
Is there any inherent advantage to the 6.5mm calibre which out-weighs the recoil issue? In real terms, not just on paper - doesn't look like it to me.
Looks like the 6mm is hard to beat in terms of weight/recoil vs accuracy. The other 300m derivatives are all 6mm, when they could have done anything else- they still came back to 6mm. Same for 6.5XC vs 6XC - David Tubb did all testing one could hope for and that's the conclusion.
So why does a 6mm-6.5x47 Lapua have any appeal vs a 6XC? Small primer is only difference I can see. Again is this real?
Thanks again
Aubrey, I've looked at this issue quite a bit and concluded that there is no upside to the 6.5x47 for 300 meter ISSF shooting. It is unlikely that it is more accurate than the 6BR,and by saying unlikely I'm being nice). The added recoil is always a negative. No upside.
As to the 6mm wildcat version,s) of the 6.5x47, again, I have to ask "why"? The 6XC already exists, it is a cartridge for which standardized dimensions,reamers, dies) exist, for which excellent factory brass is available, so what's to be gained? The small primer is the only real difference and in a cartridge of this size I don't believe it amounts to any real gain, especially if a milder primer is used in the 6XC, such as the Russian or CCI BR2.
I shoot 4 cartridges for all my matches, 300 meters to 1000 yards,not all cartridges at all distances) they are 6BR, 6XC, .308 and 30-06 - not a wildcat among them and I have never found a solid reason to venture into that pool.
In fairness, I should say I have a .22 PPC which I built for 300M and while it is,now) very accurate, it was a major headache to get there and I wouldn't do it again. I don't use it much either, it's just simpler to shoot 6BR.
As to the 6mm wildcat version,s) of the 6.5x47, again, I have to ask "why"? The 6XC already exists, it is a cartridge for which standardized dimensions,reamers, dies) exist, for which excellent factory brass is available, so what's to be gained? The small primer is the only real difference and in a cartridge of this size I don't believe it amounts to any real gain, especially if a milder primer is used in the 6XC, such as the Russian or CCI BR2.
I shoot 4 cartridges for all my matches, 300 meters to 1000 yards,not all cartridges at all distances) they are 6BR, 6XC, .308 and 30-06 - not a wildcat among them and I have never found a solid reason to venture into that pool.
In fairness, I should say I have a .22 PPC which I built for 300M and while it is,now) very accurate, it was a major headache to get there and I wouldn't do it again. I don't use it much either, it's just simpler to shoot 6BR.
Consider that the 6.5X47L is a SMALL case for the heavy 6.5 bullets.
Yes, many are running very high velocities with 123/130gr bullets but that is usually at elevated pressures. Some barrels just don't like being pushed that hard and the setup becomes very peaky. Difficult to keep tuned especially over a shooting day that can start with frost then end with tshirts.
If all you are doing is running the mid weight 6.5's, you gain very little as far as wind drift vs a 'large' case 6mm. The BC's of the 105/108gr Bergers vs the 123gr Lapua/130gr Berger is pretty much a wash.
For a very small difference in wind drift but a bunch more recoil, why bother?
As you know I am shooting a wildcat I call the 6.5 Mystic,a 260AI variant). Now we have enough case capacity to start moving the 139gr/142gr bullets at interesting velocities,2900+fps). We do so without running super spicy pressures so the set up is very tractable and predictable. Hot or cold, it runs the same.
Now on my 4th barrel of two makes and run near identical loads set up for best accuracy. Have yet to throw out any brass due to primer pockets loosening!
At 300m, I can dial the vertical almost out of my rifle with group sizes in the 1/2" to 3/4" range,5 shot groups, light/calm air). Vertical can be as low as 1/8".
Recoil is certainly more but with F class rifle weights, still very manageable. As you know my busted shoulder simply will not allow me to shoot a kicker.
Now we have a tangible increase in wind bucking ability and a larger scoring hole. Plus I have one load that I can use at all ranges.
The 6.5 really starts to shine with case volumes equal to a 6.5 Swede/6.5 Mystic run at magnum pressures. You get into the sweet spot of the 139/142gr bullets without needing to cook barrels as you do with a 6.5-284.
I have never been a fan on running the smallest case to get the highest velocities through extreme pressures. Just too unforgiving.
Hope this helps.
Jerry
Yes, many are running very high velocities with 123/130gr bullets but that is usually at elevated pressures. Some barrels just don't like being pushed that hard and the setup becomes very peaky. Difficult to keep tuned especially over a shooting day that can start with frost then end with tshirts.
If all you are doing is running the mid weight 6.5's, you gain very little as far as wind drift vs a 'large' case 6mm. The BC's of the 105/108gr Bergers vs the 123gr Lapua/130gr Berger is pretty much a wash.
For a very small difference in wind drift but a bunch more recoil, why bother?
As you know I am shooting a wildcat I call the 6.5 Mystic,a 260AI variant). Now we have enough case capacity to start moving the 139gr/142gr bullets at interesting velocities,2900+fps). We do so without running super spicy pressures so the set up is very tractable and predictable. Hot or cold, it runs the same.
Now on my 4th barrel of two makes and run near identical loads set up for best accuracy. Have yet to throw out any brass due to primer pockets loosening!
At 300m, I can dial the vertical almost out of my rifle with group sizes in the 1/2" to 3/4" range,5 shot groups, light/calm air). Vertical can be as low as 1/8".
Recoil is certainly more but with F class rifle weights, still very manageable. As you know my busted shoulder simply will not allow me to shoot a kicker.
Now we have a tangible increase in wind bucking ability and a larger scoring hole. Plus I have one load that I can use at all ranges.
The 6.5 really starts to shine with case volumes equal to a 6.5 Swede/6.5 Mystic run at magnum pressures. You get into the sweet spot of the 139/142gr bullets without needing to cook barrels as you do with a 6.5-284.
I have never been a fan on running the smallest case to get the highest velocities through extreme pressures. Just too unforgiving.
Hope this helps.
Jerry
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