does energy matter for killing power when killing an animal?

[model 12 toby]

???????

 

[model 12 toby]

U know as far as the charts show?

 

[bheadboy]

ft pd of enegery is the force that damages tissue, breaks bones, creats hydrolic shock and untimately kills.

The less energy at a given distance vs the size/toughness of animal the less likely a clean/quick kill there are levels of enegry (disputed) that are needed for clean kills, say 1000fp for mulie, 1500fp for elk, etc.

bullet design/construction is another major point as the energy needs to be transfered to the animal in a useful way, light construction bullets "open/blowup' too soon on tough game, heavy construction poke holes through light weight animals,

there is judgement as to the construction of bullet for the animal target, and the cartridge for enough energy to allow the bullet to do its job at the distance used.

Bob

 

[model 12 toby]

Let's hear a breakdown of how much energy for each animal.

 

[savagedasher]

Shot placement is what is needed My Grand Daughter killed a water buff with one well place shot with a 308 win and it normally takes 4 shot from 375 HH.

 

[model 12 toby]

Good lord. I seen a video of Wayne van zwoll taking down an elk with a 6.5 creed more and thought that was impressive.

 

[Trapper243]

I think much depends upon the projectile and how and where the animal is hit. Most bows generate 50 to 70 ft lbs of energy, but they will penetrate the ribs of a broadside animal and take out the lungs and often keep on flying as they exit.With a rifle you need at least enough to penetrate the ribs and send the bullet into the lungs. At that point the bullet needs to have expanded on its way through the ribs and tear a hole through the lungs. More energy should create more hydrostatic shock, but that will depend upon bullet construction and what is hit. Much of the time on a broadside shot the extra energy is taken with it out the ribs on the far side. The lungs themselves are light spongy material and full of air. Not at all like muscle, or ballistic gelatin. They do not absorb much energy because of their construction. Solid bone will absorb more energy, so will muscle. If you want to see what paunch material is capable of go soak a tightly wrapped bail of alfalfa in water and shoot it. In any case, Enter the vitals from an angle, other than broadside through the ribs, like through a front shoulder, and you may need considerable energy and a heavily constructed bullet to even get to the vitals. The extra energy also adds a measure of forgiveness in case the shot does not go where you want it. The rub being, more energy, more recoil. With most people more recoil means less accuracy. I tend to prefer the path of least resistance.

 

[Glenn Powell]

Shot placement is what is needed My Grand Daughter killed a water buff with one well place shot with a 308 win and it normally takes 4 shot from 375 HH.


Your absolutely correct. But did you send her out there alone with nothing but a 308? I would hope there was someone else there with a backup, and I am sure there was.

Trapper243 pretty much hit the nail on the head.

 

[Lapua40X]

Yes and no ... A well placed shot with a relatively low energy bullet will take down many animals. A poorly placed shot with the same bullet will wound it and it will suffer a terrible death. A high energy bullet, designed to transfer its kinetic energy to the target through controlled expansion, will produce shock waves that are more likely to result in a clean kill, even when the shot might be placed in a less than perfect spot of the target. Keep in mind that bullet design is also a critical factor. A large caliber FMJ bullet will not transfer much of its kinetic energy to the target. That's why, in most (if not all) of the states I'm acquainted with, FMJ bullets are illegal for hunting purposes. A properly designed controlled expansion bullet is more effective. That doesn't mean that just because the bullet is designed for controlled expansion that it is suitable for any type of game either. Matching the bullet to the game is as important as matching the bullet's ballistics to the rifle. Tracking down a wounded animal for several hours and finding it kicking and struggling while you ponder the best coup de gras procedure is not something most hunters favor.

 

[savagedasher]

By the way she was just 10 years old .Yes she had back up. She had shot several hogs with a 223 also one as big as 275 lb and had the same result. One well placed shot to the head. We have hunted for over a hour for a 175 lb hog shot through the heart and lungs with a 375 HH who would ever think one would run 150 YD hit like that .The bullet never expanded. My feeling Bone is your friend regardless what size you use Good Shooting Larry

 

[MrMajestic]

Here is a good read-
http://poncarpc.org/Rifle%20Ballistics-Part%20V.pdf

 

[Raythemanroe]

bheadboy, Lapua40X,


What you said!

 

[mytwo60]

Nowaday I shoot lighter bullets at greater velocity. I shoot a 300WM with 130gr ttsx. Going around 3600fps. Pretty much everything drops right there.

The only reason I chose this load is because I had a mulie run straight down a steep mountain on me after a well placed double lung shot using 180gr tsx. Took me foreEVER to get the buck.

This was 8yrs ago and never again have I had an animal take more than a step with the lighter load. Did I mentioned a much lighter recoil?

 

[Con]

Does it matter ... No. I believe 'killing' is relative to the amount of damage done to vital organs. A varmint projectile that makes it into the chest cavity is one of the fastest killers going, more so than an FMJ ... that's due to the relative damage done to internal organs, not the 'transfer' of energy. Placement of a projectile to disrupt the CNS will kill no matter what energy the projectile started with, it just needs to disrupt the CNS and the animal will drop. Other vital organs are also susceptible, but not necessarily equally so. A pure heart shot will allow animals to run, a clean double lung shot a bit further back generally less so, a lung shot that also breaks bones and showers the lungs with bone shards is often a DRT. All is relative to the damage being done internally and the resultant blood pressure loss. A friend of mine has shot very large (elk sized) game with a sub-sonic 44Magnum that was suppressed (relatively no noise), clean lung shots with no bones hit often resulted in animals seemingly undisturbed continuing to graze or stand, before laying down and expiring.

Consider also how much of the energy determined through your calculations based on velocity is consumed in making the projectile itself deform.

Placement, placement, placement ... these are the most important factors in killing power.
Cheers...
Con

 

[Raythemanroe]

Circumstances, is the said animal known for it's talents of eluding the hardest hitting calibers? The theory of most is always have enough gun! Well this is a sound theory for those that are willing and able to purchase a gun for every occasion..Yes, in my opinion and experience energy matters very much with killing power! This is where I differ from the large majority because I feel and have learned that a controlled expansion of the bullet followed by enough weight and speed you in return have a animal that has had a great deal of trauma to it's internal organs. The animal usually dies very fast if you have done your part.. I try to load the heaviest Ballistic tip I can at about 3000 fps for hunting..I know these numbers will stir the pot but if I'm running a .243 to a 7mm mag or even a 300 wm I try to run the heaviest bullet I can at least 3000 fps..Now which one of those I pick depends on the game!