A message from Wyman on Coyote killing

[Knotwild]

This thread made me remember a trip to Texas with Kenny Jarrett to deliver one of his rifles to a client in Brownsville. Harold Broughton taught about building rifles and we dropped by to look at the first button rifling machine he built. Without wandering too much I'll get to the point.

Harold took me out to check his cyanide sets for coyotes (he said the county paid him $20K a year to kill them). The first few coyotes were showing up here in SC then. Harold said this "once you have them, you will always have them". He went on to say that they move in to an area where there's plenty to eat and since that helps them to be healthy they have large litters until the food supply drops off. When the food supply drops off, litter size shrinks and therefore the population.

He then said something interesting - when hunting and trapping them reduces the population, the first to die are the stupid ones. That leaves a reduced population ready to have larger litters from the ones intelligent enough to survive.

But, I do believe the can change an ecosystem. The island I used to manage was once known for a massive diamondback rattle snake population. I think they were there because the island used to be covered with rabbits and cotton rats. Once the coyotes came, they pretty much obliterated the rabbits and greatly reduced the rats (temporarily). Now, you can go years without laying eyes on a diamondback. The coyotes took away the snakes primary food source.

 

[jxb]

I've got a funny coyote story that involves both calling and trapping, that happened maybe ten years ago -- and I've got pics!!

My wife and I took off with both old camper truck, and my Jeep Cherokee to use as a "runabout". Mid October, weather was beautiful, and we had four or five days to camp and call coyotes. We spent the morning driving about a hundred miles out into the des to an area where I had hunted and trapped before. Settled into this little spot at the end of a faint road, and set up camp.
View attachment 1569267
Got up before light the next morning, and used the dry creek to sneak down into some country that was unscathed by our camp. I think it was on our second stand of the morning that a coyote arrived and stopped about a hundred yards out. I made a stupid miss with my first shot, and then a bragging running shot at prolly 150. 40 gr. V-Max with no exit and a really pretty medium female.
View attachment 1569272
We tried another couple of stands with no success, so headed back to camp to let the dog out of the camper and have some breakfast. This led to a little excitement.
View attachment 1569277
That wire-haired dog that ya see there is my beloved Gunner, who has since headed up to the Rainbow Bridge to wait for my arrival. This particular morning however he was involved in a little drama, when he found a coyote trap directly under that table that you see behind him. It was a perfect front foot catch, and the trap was staked solid. Gunner wasn't very happy, but I managed to un hook him without getting bit, and things settled down for a little breakfast and skinning.
View attachment 1569278
So a little later when a pick-up came down our little road, with a couple of trappers in it -- well this was what they saw. My wife was getting started on making a pelt out of what they presumed was their coyote. I've gotta admit that I'd have been pretty suspicious myself.

I had to explain that we'd killed the coyote by other means, and that they had at least been successful at trapping my dog. They were good guys, and believed our testimony, but one remarked that "maybe we're not very good trappers if it took almost a day to catch your dog".

It's stuff like this that makes good memories and life worth living. jd

Your wife skins coyotes, now there's a keeper. Heck I know more than a few guys that nearly loose their lunch when I'd case one, ok some did loose their lunch. Can't even imagine being lucky enough to find a woman that would be around it let alone do it. My wife is tolerant of my shooting/hunting but I'd never let her anywhere near when casing one.

 

[okie]

The old ranchers that I know never worried about them bothering their cattle. We did have some in one of the city parks in Arlington, Tex that attacked some children. I wish I had a couple to thin out the army of stray cats that the old b--ch that lives in the property behind us feeds.
We like cats and have always had one or two, but they are in our house and not making a mess on anybody's possessions.

Live trap and sardines.
You gotta lot of skunks and coons to catch before you get the kitties....

 

[butchlambert]

This thread made me remember a trip to Texas with Kenny Jarrett to deliver one of his rifles to a client in Brownsville. Harold Broughton taught about building rifles and we dropped by to look at the first button rifling machine he built. Without wandering too much I'll get to the point.

Harold took me out to check his cyanide sets for coyotes (he said the county paid him $20K a year to kill them). The first few coyotes were showing up here in SC then. Harold said this "once you have them, you will always have them". He went on to say that they move in to an area where there's plenty to eat and since that helps them to be healthy they have large litters until the food supply drops off. When the food supply drops off, litter size shrinks and therefore the population.

He then said something interesting - when hunting and trapping them reduces the population, the first to die are the stupid ones. That leaves a reduced population ready to have larger litters from the ones intelligent enough to survive.

But, I do believe the can change an ecosystem. The island I used to manage was once known for a massive diamondback rattle snake population. I think they were there because the island used to be covered with rabbits and cotton rats. Once the coyotes came, they pretty much obliterated the rabbits and greatly reduced the rats (temporarily). Now, you can go years without laying eyes on a diamondback. The coyotes took away the snakes primary food source.

Harold was a trip! He was big and loud, but a good guy. I bought his Shiloh Sharps from him in the mid 90s. I remember Turk Takano and I stopping by Harold's place as Turk was doing an article on him. This is as close as I came to being a rich oilman. Turk took a photo of Harold and I with Harold handing me a custom rifle. The magazine article had that photo saying that Harold was giving this rifle to an oil man client. Yes, I still have a copy of it.

 

[Doug Casner]

Nothing like the smell of skinning a gut shot coyote or hit anywhere coyote. Doug

 

[Knotwild]

Harold was a trip! He was big and loud, but a good guy. I bought his Shiloh Sharps from him in the mid 90s. I remember Turk Takano and I stopping by Harold's place as Turk was doing an article on him. This is as close as I came to being a rich oilman. Turk took a photo of Harold and I with Harold handing me a custom rifle. The magazine article had that photo saying that Harold was giving this rifle to an oil man client. Yes, I still have a copy of it.

I found a couple of photos from that trip this week. I will try to get them scanned and post them. He was a trip and I wish I had known him and spent time around him. He took me on my first prairie dog hunt (and only), we went to his range and shot his 600yd full sized elk target. In fact Harold got out of his truck, took pulled out his rifle (I believe it was 7mm Mauser or AI) and hit it first shot offhand.

And lastly, when we checked is coyote sets, we got a flat on his pickup from a mesquite thorn. His pickup was running on propane, so he got out took a hose with a chuck he rigged from the propane tank, filled the tire, found the hole, and plugged it.

 

[butchlambert]

I found a couple of photos from that trip this week. I will try to get them scanned and post them. He was a trip and I wish I had known him and spent time around him. He took me on my first prairie dog hunt (and only), we went to his range and shot his 600yd full sized elk target. In fact Harold got out of his truck, took pulled out his rifle (I believe it was 7mm Mauser or AI) and hit it first shot offhand.

And lastly, when we checked is coyote sets, we got a flat on his pickup from a mesquite thorn. His pickup was running on propane, so he got out took a hose with a chuck he rigged from the propane tank, filled the tire, found the hole, and plugged it.

Now that is Harold! Jackie may remember a match several years ago at Deitz's range. After each relay they actually moved the target frames in order that your target number was always the same. 2nd relay started and Harold with his booming voice said some SOB is cross firing on his target! Yes Harold, you were crossfiring, not anybody else! We had a real chuckle out of it.

 

[Webster]

The old ranchers that I know never worried about them bothering their cattle. We did have some in one of the city parks in Arlington, Tex that attacked some children. I wish I had a couple to thin out the army of stray cats that the old b--ch that lives in the property behind us feeds.
We like cats and have always had one or two, but they are in our house and not making a mess on anybody's possessions.

My friend has 6 house cats and about 15 living outside that he feeds. They have about 3 littters every summer outside in his yard. He sends $4000 a year to some animal rescue place out of state and he thinks he is kind to cats. Some of them die each year to sickness, they all have fleas. He doesn't care. I tell him cats are not the problem he is. He just laughs at me.

 

[butchlambert]

My friend has 6 house cats and about 15 living outside that he feeds. They have about 3 littters every summer outside in his yard. He sends $4000 a year to some animal rescue place out of state and he thinks he is kind to cats. Some of them die each year to sickness, they all have fleas. He doesn't care. I tell him cats are not the problem he is. He just laughs at me.

I agree Webster!

 

[butchlambert]

This thread made me remember a trip to Texas with Kenny Jarrett to deliver one of his rifles to a client in Brownsville. Harold Broughton taught about building rifles and we dropped by to look at the first button rifling machine he built. Without wandering too much I'll get to the point.

Harold took me out to check his cyanide sets for coyotes (he said the county paid him $20K a year to kill them). The first few coyotes were showing up here in SC then. Harold said this "once you have them, you will always have them". He went on to say that they move in to an area where there's plenty to eat and since that helps them to be healthy they have large litters until the food supply drops off. When the food supply drops off, litter size shrinks and therefore the population.

He then said something interesting - when hunting and trapping them reduces the population, the first to die are the stupid ones. That leaves a reduced population ready to have larger litters from the ones intelligent enough to survive.

But, I do believe the can change an ecosystem. The island I used to manage was once known for a massive diamondback rattle snake population. I think they were there because the island used to be covered with rabbits and cotton rats. Once the coyotes came, they pretty much obliterated the rabbits and greatly reduced the rats (temporarily). Now, you can go years without laying eyes on a diamondback. The coyotes took away the snakes primary food source.

From Wyman commenting on your post.

He is right about the litter sizes increasing after a bountiful year. But too, the year the litter sizes increase is often followed by a reduction in prey species, either by disease or predator pressure.
I just returned from cleaning up my old teapot dugout on the Pitchfork ranch. I’ve been needing to go down there for months but either have not had time or lately the weather has been too hot. Well, today it rained and was so cool I had to wear a light jacket!
But I got the place clean again so will not have to go back down until autumn.
I’ll send photos!

 

[jds holler]

I think what the biologists say around here is that the jack rabbit cycles go in seven year peaks and valleys. The coyote population follows those cycles with the peak being a year behind the rabbits. That sounds possible with some variation.

What I do know, is that I've never been able to predict how well I'll do with my hunting success from one year to the next, or in areas that I've done well before. Sometimes I'm pretty sure that I just suck. jd

 

[Jr solocam]

I shot a coyote a few years ago during an especially hard winter. I was curious to what it was eating, so I took a look. Branches, rocks, and some Pheasant feathers. So I have a great deal of respect for their toughness.

I have a rancher friend in Harding County. He killed 600 coyotes after the blizzards in the spring of 22 in one month. There are more now. So to the people who look down there nose at us who shoot coyotes....someone else finish this sentence for me.

Predator calling and shooting contests are a social gathering. It does nothing to the population and I don't give AF what the anti hunters think.

 

[jxb]

I'm not into coyote contests, but I'm not against it either. I do however think they should be treated like the rabbit drives in Mud Lake (past), best kept on the down low and out of the news.

 

[Jr solocam]

I don't participate in them either, but we keep our mouths shut and bow down before the libs? Not me, somebody has to stand up for common sense.

 

[davidjoe]

I shot a coyote a few years ago during an especially hard winter. I was curious to what it was eating, so I took a look. Branches, rocks, and some Pheasant feathers. So I have a great deal of respect for their toughness.

I have a rancher friend in Harding County. He killed 600 coyotes after the blizzards in the spring of 22 in one month. There are more now. So to the people who look down there nose at us who shoot coyotes....someone else finish this sentence for me.

Predator calling and shooting contests are a social gathering. It does nothing to the population and I don't give AF what the anti hunters think.

This Harding County, - in the picture? Does your friend own the Bell Ranch? NM game and fish estimates that 10k are hunted annually in NM, statewide.

That, JR, is on average one coyote killed per 7,800 acres, per year, in NM.

If your friend owns the Bell Ranch, then he owns more than 2 million acres, total. If your friend owns the 300,000 acre Bell Ranch, AND also 1.7 million other acres, then that might be relevant in mentioning, when you throw out the assertion that a friend “rancher” killed 600 in one winter and now they are back.

If you mean to imply that a typical rancher in the country can kill 600 coyotes a winter, and they come right back, then I have to wonder, how many bears do you figure there are?

 

[Jr solocam]

You are only 2000 miles away.

 

[Jr solocam]

This is what I imply, I 'll make it simple for you. The average hunter or rancher will never make a meaningful dent in the coyote population. Without serious poison or air support.

 

[snert]

Nothing like the smell of skinning a gut shot coyote or hit anywhere coyote. Doug

I recall the first coyote I shot...a big eastern dog with a red pelt with a 357 Herrett Contender 14 inch at about 100 yards. I was deer hunting. When I got out to him I realized ^^^ about coyotes. His last meal and bath must have been skunk and road kill possum. I dragged him with a noose around his neck into the wind...and he rode on the tailgate to the skinner...not me BTW.
GAAAG!

 

[davidjoe]

This is what I imply, I 'll make it simple for you. The average hunter or rancher will never make a meaningful dent in the coyote population. Without serious poison or air support.

Don’t make it simple on my account. The median farm/ranch in the United States is 80 acres. Half are bigger than this, and half are smaller.

We have the largest coyote population in Texas, of the states, by far. About 850,000 or about 2.5 per square mile (640 acres).

Fairly obviously, a square mile is 8 times bigger than the median farm or ranch.

Ever feed and rattle up bucks that spend most of their lives on your neighbors?

If your friend has 2 square miles of land at the average carrying capacity of Texas’ land, then there are likely to be five. Can you “put a dent” in five?

If he killed 600 in one month, and that wasn’t all of them, then he must have had about 1,000, does your friend have a ranch that is roughly 400 square miles in size?

 

[jds holler]

I recall the first coyote I shot...a big eastern dog with a red pelt with a 357 Herrett Contender 14 inch at about 100 yards. I was deer hunting. When I got out to him I realized ^^^ about coyotes. His last meal and bath must have been skunk and road kill possum. I dragged him with a noose around his neck into the wind...and he rode on the tailgate to the skinner...not me BTW.
GAAAG!

Parker my friend, I don't think you'll ever make it big in the world of trapping and fur prep. After a while, you get so used to the smell that you can eat a sammich while you work. Skinning muskrats is easiest when you do it on a piece of carpet laying in your lap. I used to get so immersed in the smell that I wouldn't look for a girlfriend until season was over. Didn't have time for them anyway. jd