Do you weight sort primers?

[JEFFPPC]

You wont.
Weighing primers is a joke!!
Just as brass varies in weight so does all the components in each primer.
For brass it makes sense as a piece of brass with a lower internal volume will create more pressure causing shot to hit high, whereas a piece with a higher case capacity and same charge weight will have a lower pressure and point of impact.
Now back to primers...
Without the ability to individually weigh each component of the primer by itself your just guessing. Your weight variable came from which component?
Cup?
Anvil?
Charge?
Foil?
Sorry you wasted your time in this exercise in futility.
Got my info from a physics professor.
Yup I'm a Scott parker fan.

I called both Federal and CCI this week to answer a question in a debate I was involved in. I asked the tech at each after they answered my question what they though about weighing primers. The,y bot.h chuckled and said there is variance in every component in a primer as all component have a standard range they must fall in by weight. Both said they felt it is a worthless excercise. Just reporting what they said, please don't shoot me, for some strange reason my wife likes having me around. My personal opinion is the effort would be better spent on gun handling and condition evaluation.

 

[Bc'z]

I called both Federal and CCI this week to answer a question in a debate I was involved in. I asked the tech at each after they answered my question what they though about weighing primers. The,y bot.h chuckled and said there is variance in every component in a primer as all component have a standard range they must fall in by weight. Both said they felt it is a worthless excercise. Just reporting what they said, please don't shoot me, for some strange reason my wife likes having me around. My personal opinion is the effort would be better spent on gun handling and condition evaluation.

Same answer I got last year when I called
Concerning small rifle primers vs the ar match primer.

 

[corning]

No!

I weigh my brass. I weigh my powder charges. I SPOT weigh my finished loaded rounds. Spot weigh 10 out of a box of 50 gives me, at most, a 1 GRAIN variation. I load .308 with 155's, currently in Winchester brass. I just don't remember what the total weight of my loaded rounds is, but seem to think it is in the 370 grain range. Unfortunately my scale is out of state at this time.

Why do I want to get hung up over .008 grams?

 

[JEFFPPC]

I appreciate all the responses and figured I would get a variety of answers. Background and response to a few:

My sole focus here is extreme accuracy in 1,000 yard Benchrest competition. I sort my fully prepped cases into sets matched by weight to .1gr even though many tell me it is a waste of time. While doing so I measure the neck diameter in 3-4 places on every case as I turn them-my last batch of cases was 500 Lapua 6BR's. I sort base to ogive even on custom hand made bullets while many say "Just shoot them". I weigh each charge to the kernel of powder. Many say this is not necessary but I have proved to myself that it matters. I have been annealing after each firing with an AMP annealer and although I get incredibly consistent seating pressures, I plan on testing not anneanilg this year. Weighing these primers took only 2.25 hours so why wouldn't I sort them. What you need to understand is I don't look at any of these things as extra work or even work at all. I love it. In the last two or three years I have watched my smallest groups at 1,000 yards drop from about 7" when my goal was under 1/2 moa, to barely over 3" and I'm happy but still not content. My current goal is to shoot in the 2's and the one after that will be to shoot in the 1's. I hope it never ends.

Last year I put together a Dasher and it was the most accurate rifle I had ever owned, 3.5" at 1K. I sold it after 6 months. I had determined it wasn't truly competitive at 1K. I got my WSM down to shooting under 1/2 moa at 1K. It's gone too. This year I will be testing two 6 BRA's. I can't wait to break in the barrels and get them shooting.

Everyone has different goals and that's fine, I just wanted you to understand where I was coming from.

In response to post #2, #8, #25, #27 and #29, I have proved to myself here http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/weight-sorting-primers-test.3966861/ and in other testing that the cup and anvil are extremely uniform which means the variation in weight comes from the priming compound. I have even weighed the ash residue and just so you know it is .002G with Federal 205M's. This now makes it very easy to check cup and anvil combined weights after firing without disassembly or cleaning. EDIT, add # 42 and 43 to this list.

In response to #34, no I'm not crazy, maybe I go a little overboard, but not crazy!

In response to #35, no, I'm not bored, I think it's fun. In fact this weekend I'll be sorting 1,000 CCI's.

Thanks again everyone. Good shooting.

Dave Way, that is some fine shooting. What match did, you shoot a bit over 3 inches. I would like to be able to do that.

 

[Dave Way]

Dave Way, that is some fine shooting. What match did, you shoot a bit over 3 inches. I would like to be able to do that.

Thanks but not in a match. Testing a new bullet in a 6.5x47L a couple months ago. The orange dot is 2"

 

[Medic505]

no I'm not crazy

I like the sign in your name plate!!

 

[david kieffer]

I appreciate all the responses and figured I would get a variety of answers. Background and response to a few:

My sole focus here is extreme accuracy in 1,000 yard Benchrest competition. I sort my fully prepped cases into sets matched by weight to .1gr even though many tell me it is a waste of time. While doing so I measure the neck thickness in 3-4 places on every case as I turn them-my last batch of cases was 500 Lapua 6BR's. I sort base to ogive even on custom hand made bullets while many say "Just shoot them". I weigh each charge to the kernel of powder. Many say this is not necessary but I have proved to myself that it matters. I have been annealing after each firing with an AMP annealer and although I get incredibly consistent seating pressures, I plan on testing not anneanilg this year. Weighing these primers took only 2.25 hours so why wouldn't I sort them. What you need to understand is I don't look at any of these things as extra work or even work at all. I love it. In the last two or three years I have watched my smallest groups at 1,000 yards drop from about 7" when my goal was under 1/2 moa, to barely over 3" and I'm happy but still not content. My current goal is to shoot in the 2's and the one after that will be to shoot in the 1's. I hope it never ends.

Last year I put together a Dasher and it was the most accurate rifle I had ever owned, 3.5" at 1K. I sold it after 6 months. I had determined it wasn't truly competitive at 1K. I got my WSM down to shooting under 1/2 moa at 1K. It's gone too. This year I will be testing two 6 BRA's. I can't wait to break in the barrels and get them shooting.

Everyone has different goals and that's fine, I just wanted you to understand where I was coming from.

In response to post #2, #8, #25, #27 and #29, I have proved to myself here http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/weight-sorting-primers-test.3966861/ and in other testing that the cup and anvil are extremely uniform which means the variation in weight comes from the priming compound. I have even weighed the ash residue and just so you know it is .002G with Federal 205M's. This now makes it very easy to check cup and anvil combined weights after firing without disassembly or cleaning. EDIT, add # 42 and 43 to this list.

In response to #34, no I'm not crazy, maybe I go a little overboard, but not crazy!

In response to #35, no, I'm not bored, I think it's fun. In fact this weekend I'll be sorting 1,000 CCI's.

Thanks again everyone. Good shooting.

let's ask this question . has anyone not sorting primers ever shot a 2" or 3" 10 shot group @ 1000 yd in a match . I do not enjoy sorting weights of anything , but I do enjoy the results . thank you . dave

 

[mgunderson]

Nope, but that would be one awesome group with iron sights!

 

[tom]

I am curious as to @tom results on primer sorting.

So the other night I was talking to Alex, and he excitedly told me about salmon in some of these lakes. I laughed, yeah we have them here to, I used to go when I was a kid (1980's). Anyway, to my surprise I remembered all about the set up and how to put your gear right in them 35 years later since last doing it. I'll bet if Alex talks to a few more folks that have more recent experience, he won't be calling anyone asking for fish next summer.

 

[Bc'z]

Kokanee aka land locked sockeye .
I know of the upriver brights that head up the Snake into Clearwater .
Did not know they made it that far east

Edit ,I read where pacific salmon were introduced into Fort Peck Reservoir in the 80's.

 

[Bc'z]

I appreciate all the responses and figured I would get a variety of answers. Background and response to a few:

My sole focus here is extreme accuracy in 1,000 yard Benchrest competition. I sort my fully prepped cases into sets matched by weight to .1gr even though many tell me it is a waste of time. While doing so I measure the neck thickness in 3-4 places on every case as I turn them-my last batch of cases was 500 Lapua 6BR's. I sort base to ogive even on custom hand made bullets while many say "Just shoot them". I weigh each charge to the kernel of powder. Many say this is not necessary but I have proved to myself that it matters. I have been annealing after each firing with an AMP annealer and although I get incredibly consistent seating pressures, I plan on testing not anneanilg this year. Weighing these primers took only 2.25 hours so why wouldn't I sort them. What you need to understand is I don't look at any of these things as extra work or even work at all. I love it. In the last two or three years I have watched my smallest groups at 1,000 yards drop from about 7" when my goal was under 1/2 moa, to barely over 3" and I'm happy but still not content. My current goal is to shoot in the 2's and the one after that will be to shoot in the 1's. I hope it never ends.

Last year I put together a Dasher and it was the most accurate rifle I had ever owned, 3.5" at 1K. I sold it after 6 months. I had determined it wasn't truly competitive at 1K. I got my WSM down to shooting under 1/2 moa at 1K. It's gone too. This year I will be testing two 6 BRA's. I can't wait to break in the barrels and get them shooting.

Everyone has different goals and that's fine, I just wanted you to understand where I was coming from.

In response to post #2, #8, #25, #27 and #29, I have proved to myself here http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/weight-sorting-primers-test.3966861/ and in other testing that the cup and anvil are extremely uniform which means the variation in weight comes from the priming compound. I have even weighed the ash residue and just so you know it is .002G with Federal 205M's. This now makes it very easy to check cup and anvil combined weights after firing without disassembly or cleaning. EDIT, add # 42 and 43 to this list.

In response to #34, no I'm not crazy, maybe I go a little overboard, but not crazy!

In response to #35, no, I'm not bored, I think it's fun. In fact this weekend I'll be sorting 1,000 CCI's.

Thanks again everyone. Good shooting.

Everyone gets thier enjoyment in different ways for sure.
I understand fully your desires to achieve super small groups at 1000 and beyond.
Everybody's goals of accuracy are different for sure, as is the equipment used.

Yes I've spent over an hour talking with
Mr Parker on the phone about weight sorting.
The benefits there of and where it's most important. And primers had the most possibilities of variance do to all the components involved in thier design.
"Makes absolute sense to me"
Deterring me from pursuing that Avenue.

As to my question of what costs in time and money does accuracy come?
I'd have to say depends on what your willing to spend.
Personally I dont have the time nor money.
But I do learn an immense amount of information from those of you that do.
Carry on in your endeavors as I'll be watching and learning from you all.
You have to admit this has been a better read than bullet packaging.

 

[gme]

no way, this is where it's at
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com...-uniforming-for-ultimate-long-range-accuracy/

 

[rkittine]

I don't sort them by weight until I first sort them by cup height. Weight can be off my the cup material not just the charge weight.

 

[Bc'z]

no way, this is where it's at
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com...-uniforming-for-ultimate-long-range-accuracy/

Good one!! LMAO
I almost fell for it!

 

[AJC]

I don't sort them by weight until I first sort them by cup height. Weight can be off my the cup material not just the charge weight.

But do you trim the cups to be uniform so you can get uniform seating depth???

 

[AJC]

Salt Water fishing sounds pretty good , should be some dandy Ling Cod about now.
Yummy!
Nea Bay is my favorite spot how bout y’all?

The green blue meat freaks me out. If I'm on the water up there I love the crab...

 

[rkittine]

Finding a Primer Cup Trimmer was a real chore! In reality, I hate to even handle primers much prior to seating them.

 

[Bc'z]

Finding a Primer Cup Trimmer was a real chore! In reality, I hate to even handle primers much prior to seating them.

Use a grinder, just watch your sparks

Salt Water fishing sounds pretty good , should be some dandy Ling Cod about now.
Yummy!
Nea Bay is my favorite spot how bout y’all?

20 lb stealhead up the road half hour from the house. RIGHT NOW!
But our rivers are to thick to drink n to thin to plow after this last round of storms.

 

[Topwater]

Thanks but not in a match. Testing a new bullet in a 6.5x47L a couple months ago. The orange dot is 2"

View attachment 1092982

Dave, I appreciate your thorough approach and results. Throughout our conversations and your guidance it’s quite obvious how passionate you are about the sport. I also thank you for your advice and mentoring. Though I never expect to shoot on your level, you’ve shown me how to shoot better than I ever thought possible.

 

[Dave Way]

Dave, I appreciate your thorough approach and results. Throughout our conversations and your guidance it’s quite obvious how passionate you are about the sport. I also thank you for your advice and mentoring. Though I never expect to shoot on your level, you’ve shown me how to shoot better than I ever thought possible.

I appreciate the kind words but I still don’t consider myself to be a good shooter. I’m working on it. I do love shooting but still have lots to learn. If you ever need help with anything just let me know. I’m still planning on getting you out to 1,000 this fall once the match schedule slacks off.

Thanks again,
Dave.