Dispensing powder for saving time.

[Dave M.]

My V4 is faster than my Chargemaster. And I don't think it's 9 months anymore on the wait. I think it's more like 2 months.....

My V3 auto throw and auto trickler seems to have great days and bad days. Some days I think it was my best purchase ever, other days I curse it and dump every charge because it overshot the weight. Still wouldn’t trade it for what I used to use.

 

[big5ifty]

Still wouldn’t trade it for what I used to use.

I understand the urge for high technology, appreciate the coolness of precision stuff, but I've been a curmudgeon for years already, and I will not buy something anymore just because I have the money for it - it needs to be better, work better and contribute to better results than what I am using now.

My son got the Chargemaster Lite because in his sport at the time, the top shooters said they used it.

Since he switched to StaBall, that unit only gets switched on to occasionally validate a thrown charge. And he is now one of those top shooters.

I'm unconvinced that the fixation on powder dispensed to microscopic quantities is as big a factor towards long range accuracy as it is hyped to be.

I think of George Farr and the 70 consecutive bullseyes with a military issue rifle and military issue ammo.

Now there is this, so all the V4's are old tech again -

 

[JFrank]

I'm unconvinced that the fixation on powder dispensed to microscopic quantities is as big a factor towards long range accuracy as it is hyped to be.

Really ? Maybe this 1000 yard example of .1 grain increment's will clear things up.
Ya don’t want to be on the edge…

 

[Capt. Oblivious]

O I want that Super Trickler !

 

[moondog]

I'm not a Bench rest or F-class guy, but I do compete. I have a A&D HR100, next step up from the FX. I use a Harrells to drop a charge a grain low, Trickle up with a V2. I just got the Ingenuity trickler set up. It's super fast and way more accurate! There is no way I could seat a bullet before the next charge is ready. Varget and H4895 so far. Not sure yet how it's going to play with Reloder powders. So far, impressed is an understatement.

 

[big5ifty]

Really ? Maybe this 1000 yard example of .1 grain increment's will clear things up.
Ya don’t want to be on the edge…

I appreciate the time and effort put into testing.

I assume you have a proper test going there.

Most people don't realize that one outcome is not a test result. Repeat the same thing three times over with the same result, only then is it a test. If it's not repeatable, it's not a test.

 

[MSS]

Super Trickler looks interesting but I’m not sure I want to be jostling the scale (if that’s a touch screen) to set and drop charges.

 

[JFrank]

I appreciate the time and effort put into testing.

I assume you have a proper test going there.

Most people don't realize that one outcome is not a test result. Repeat the same thing three times over with the same result, only then is it a test. If it's not repeatable, it's not a test.

Thank you, I’ll assume by your response that you are not a long range tester or competitor. Please note that my example is one of many that represent a one tenth grain accuracy window at one thousand yards. .1 grains that equal six kernels of powder with a clear node edge, imagine now trying to use a scale that resolves to only six kernels plus or minus and the need for high resolution becomes quite clear.

 

[divingin]

My V3 auto throw and auto trickler seems to have great days and bad days. Some days I think it was my best purchase ever, other days I curse it and dump every charge because it overshot the weight. Still wouldn’t trade it for what I used to use.

Question is, overshot by how much? I used to throw with a CM1500 and adjust on a strain-gauge (but still expensive) scientific balance. If I went back through and re-weighed charges, I was loading to about +/- .05 gns (as near as I can figure, anyway.) The V4 typically throws to within .02 gns 90% of the time; only rarely does the overshoot exceed .05 gn.

Adam has a process for tweaking the speed vs precision on the V4; I think if you run at an accuracy comparable to a CM, you'll cut your time in about half. If you set it to run a speed about 3/4 of what a CM does, you'll be way more precise on charge weights.

For those who have 0.02gr Accuracy vs say 0.1gr or 0.05 gr accuracy, do you know what is the difference in MV vs SD if you shot 10 shots from each load?

No hard numbers, but my normal 12-18 or so SD numbers dropped to under 10 the first batch I loaded with the V4. ES went from 20 to under 10 as well (though that isn't always the norm.) Note that I don't chrono my stuff on a regular basis; only when I get curious about speeds, change components, that sort of thing.

 

[INTJ]

I appreciate the time and effort put into testing.

I assume you have a proper test going there.

Most people don't realize that one outcome is not a test result. Repeat the same thing three times over with the same result, only then is it a test. If it's not repeatable, it's not a test.

Like Jim mentioned, he has done this repeatedly, as have I and most of the serious 1000 yd BR competitors at Deep Creek. I promise you that if it was just a fluke and not repeatable we wouldn't fuss with all this.

Part of my learning curve at Deep Creek, which has allowed me to shoot tighter and tighter groups, is accepting that these very small changes do indeed make a difference. Now I am not sure we see the results of this level of fine tuning in all conditions. However, when the conditions are excellent, if you aren't able to shoot a sub 3" 5-shot group or a sub 5" 10-shot group, then you will fall behind those that can.

 

[INTJ]

I understand the urge for high technology, appreciate the coolness of precision stuff, but I've been a curmudgeon for years already, and I will not buy something anymore just because I have the money for it - it needs to be better, work better and contribute to better results than what I am using now.

My son got the Chargemaster Lite because in his sport at the time, the top shooters said they used it.

Since he switched to StaBall, that unit only gets switched on to occasionally validate a thrown charge. And he is now one of those top shooters.

I'm unconvinced that the fixation on powder dispensed to microscopic quantities is as big a factor towards long range accuracy as it is hyped to be.

I think of George Farr and the 70 consecutive bullseyes with a military issue rifle and military issue ammo.

Now there is this, so all the V4's are old tech again -

The particular discipline one shoots will drive the level of loading precision required. In LR BR, the X-ring is 3" at 1000 yds. The 10-ring is 7". There is no military issue rifle and ammo anywhere that will run with an LRBR rifle with a tuned load on that target.

Conversely, in PRS, Highpower, Silhouette, etc. a sub MOA rifle and load isn't a huge handicap.

 

[big5ifty]

Thank you, I’ll assume by your response that you are not a long range tester or competitor.

I have tried to compete a few times in ELR with my 375 RUM, let's just say every time is more of a lesson for me than a competition.

 

[JFrank]

I have tried to compete a few times in ELR with my 375 RUM, let's just say every time is more of a lesson for me than a competition.

Lessons are free right here everyday, lesson number one is - ya need a high resolution scale to play in the long range game.
I use a tuned beam scale and still barely keep up with the BR heavy hitters’ shooting a personal best of five shot group measuring 2.37 at a thousand yards with a tiny little 6 mm cartridge is rewarding to one’s program.

Added: I heard someone had shot a good target that day and normally they end up on a special wall board for viewing, I finally found mine tossed in a pile on the ground as if routine….

 

[Shooter13]

Is it faster than 2 chargemasters running separately?
Not sure that 2 months is an accurate picture at this point, but if true, certainly helps the V4 proposition.

Are you wanting speed or accuracy? The V4 is the best option for both in my opinion. If you are shooting hunting loads the chargemaster is all you need. JMHO