Dirty barrel and accuracy

[msinc]

What I am asking is, to keep it plainly simple is,
has anyone had a gun that shoots very well when clean, and when you go beyond your normal cleaning interval, it gets very bad ?
Not looking to open up a big discussion on cleaning, etc. I suppose i may be able to answer this myself next time i shoot the same load that shot good in the past, but in the mean time , I thought I would ask.
Thank you

Yes sir, I have a couple rifles right now that will open up after so many rounds. It is not unusual, based on my experience, to see a rifle go from 1/4 minute to 1 minute or sometimes worse. Then clean the bore real good and after one of two shots it will return to it's previous best.
One thing I would stress though...to say this about a rifle {or not} it is imperative that you shoot the exact same ammo. Bullet, powder, charge, primer and cases. If not then you may not really know or could be getting a false indication. i.e., I have one rifle that shoots just about any bullet as well as several different powder combinations very well. I don't believe this is the norm and have to say a rifle like this is rare indeed. If you are comparing another rifle to some special one with this ability it may not be able to perform the same with different bullets and you will maybe think something is wrong when in fact it just might not shoot several bullets as well. Just the opposite, I have two rifles that seem to only be able to group with one bullet and powder charge no matter what I try.

Edit: I guess the bottom line is that if you have a rifle opening up and it goes back to being great after a good cleaning then you know what you gotta do.....make no mistake, they absolutely can and will act that way.

 

[JSH]

I have a few barrels that like to be fouled before they group. These seem to not get any worse as rounds are fired.

I have a couple that after so many rounds I can tell you it will only get worse.

I find each has its own likes and dislikes no matter who made it.

 

[oley55]

My first factory M700 in 17 rem. 27 gr w760 25 gr bullet. Would see groups open at 12 shots and start to shotgun at 15. Good news first couple shots were always in the poa group so hunting fox with clean barrel didn't matter. Barrel was recalled by Rem and replaced the new one was good for more than 50 shots with same load. Rarely have to clean the new Lilja barrel, during load work and storage, never because accuracy went away.

I guess that makes me feel better. I have an AR15 sporting a 24" stainless, 1/8 barrel that does exactly that. Starts opening at 12 and shotgun by 15. After cleaning it never needs more than one fouler, and the barrel looks good through a bore scope (after cleaning). I gotta get rid of that dang barrel.

 

[epc308]

I saw a great article on cleaning once. The guy had a Remington in 223 that shot very well, round count didn't seem to matter. He decided to stretch it out to see when/where accuracy dropped off. He finally felt guilty and cleaned it at 500 or something. Accuracy never did fall off. I built a 308 for myself some years back. Trued Remington action, Shilen select stainless match grade barrel. It shoots in the mid 200s if I'm on my game. It takes 10-12 rounds to settle down after cleaning. The article above had me curious. While I didn't go to 500, but I went over 100 without cleaning and had no accuracy issues. As others have said, it depends on your expectations and what game you play. Let your rifle guide you.

 

[KY_Windage]

Accurate or not, what is shooting 500 rounds w/o cleaning doing to my barrel life? I clean after every session, which is 50 - 100 rounds, usually.

 

[Ned Ludd]

As has already been mentioned, way too many possible variables. Empirically determine how long your barrel can go between cleanings before precision degrades. In addition, always keep in mind that it's usually a bad idea to reach whatever round count that may happen to be right in the middle of your next match. In other words, cleaning more often than absolutely necessary is much better than not cleaning often enough. Proper cleaning will not hurt a barrel.

 

[CharlieNC]

Like the old Fram oil filter commercial, you can pay me now or pay big later.

 

[edwardware]

Below a new button rifled Savage barrel.

Hey, any idea what the thread pitch in that barrel is?

 

[Steve Ladino]

For those of you that have a good shooting barrel, ( lets say it shoots in the mid to upper two’s normally ), how bad does it shoot when it gets dirty ?

Can groups get as large as say, 7/8” at 100 yards , when your good shooting rig starts to get dirty ?

I have one rifle that shoots best when it is as clean as unfired new, when its dirty it takes many more shots to settle the group, which is bigger. Another rifle I have accumulated fouling over time until it flat out did not shoot for #^*t. I thought it was pretty clean but it wasn't. .223 & 6 BR. respectively.

 

[Bill K]

For those of you that have a good shooting barrel, ( lets say it shoots in the mid to upper two’s normally ), how bad does it shoot when it gets dirty ?

Can groups get as large as say, 7/8” at 100 yards , when your good shooting rig starts to get dirty ?

Barrels are like Ladies, no two are the same. Each must be treated as they want or like to be.
So your barrel is going to tell you if it shoots better clean or somewhat dirty. Many find their's actually will shoot better on the dirty side.
So play with your barrel and let it tell you what it likes.
As for cleaning, when you are through shooting, for the day, you will get a thousands answers as to what is best.
Find a routine that works for you and go with it.

 

[Mickey D]

For those of you that have a good shooting barrel, ( lets say it shoots in the mid to upper two’s normally ), how bad does it shoot when it gets dirty ?

Can groups get as large as say, 7/8” at 100 yards , when your good shooting rig starts to get dirty ?

I had a 270Wby that had to be cleaned after 15 shots. At 30 shots it was shooting 1/2” or so. Clean it shoot 1 fouler and it shot a dime. I have a family member who is in the Navy and shoots 300wm. I asked him how many rounds before they cleaned their rifles. He said 2,000 or so whether they needed it or not. So each gun has a different number. Shoot till it starts to go bad. Then you know.

 

[Damon555]

Plain and Simple! Are you kidding. I'll bet this thread goes 10 pages of cleaning methods, chemicals and intervals.

I am not really interested in this thread but you sir, made me laugh out load!

 

[Ned Ludd]

Hey, any idea what the thread pitch in that barrel is?

It's a cannelured barrel. The metal was pushed out of the bore with wicked tiny bulldozers.

 

[zap]

Yes sir, I have a couple rifles right now that will open up after so many rounds. It is not unusual, based on my experience, to see a rifle go from 1/4 minute to 1 minute or sometimes worse. Then clean the bore real good and after one of two shots it will return to it's previous best.
One thing I would stress though...to say this about a rifle {or not} it is imperative that you shoot the exact same ammo. Bullet, powder, charge, primer and cases. If not then you may not really know or could be getting a false indication. i.e., I have one rifle that shoots just about any bullet as well as several different powder combinations very well. I don't believe this is the norm and have to say a rifle like this is rare indeed. If you are comparing another rifle to some special one with this ability it may not be able to perform the same with different bullets and you will maybe think something is wrong when in fact it just might not shoot several bullets as well. Just the opposite, I have two rifles that seem to only be able to group with one bullet and powder charge no matter what I try.

Edit: I guess the bottom line is that if you have a rifle opening up and it goes back to being great after a good cleaning then you know what you gotta do.....make no mistake, they absolutely can and will act that way.

Thank you for this reply.
This is what i am interested in hearing. Yes, i have ammo loaded that shot very well in the past. I got my barrel cleaned, so im just waiting on this crappy Western PA weather to clear out of here.
Thank you all for replying !!
I hope to post results soon.

 

[rjtfroggy]

Definitely not scientific but my own observation, my factory Savage barrels seem to go longer between cleanings than my custom lapped barrels once broken in.
Not saying they shoot better but they will hold their .3-.5 groups longer than the customs will hold their .2 groups. . None of mine are pencil thin barrels all are varmint contour or bull barrels.

 

[msinc]

Thank you for this reply.
This is what i am interested in hearing. Yes, i have ammo loaded that shot very well in the past. I got my barrel cleaned, so im just waiting on this crappy Western PA weather to clear out of here.
Thank you all for replying !!
I hope to post results soon.

You are quite welcome sir. I am certain that everyone else meant for their answers to help as well...one quick tip {I see you are relatively new here} is to go ahead and "like" everyone's post. Even if it might not be exactly what you were hoping for, especially when you post asking a question. It's not a requirement, but looking ahead, it might help you get your next answers taken care of with the best possible info. Good shooting sir!!!!

 

[rogn]

Hey, any idea what the thread pitch in that barrel is?

QC at Savage is apparently a part time job.


Inspite of that observation I have one MLII that would shoot sub 1/2" at 250yd and a bargain basement SS 7WSM that while developing loads stuck most pairs in 1/2" at 200yds, very impressive w/o trying. I cant remember if Ive ever cleaned it.

 

[rogn]

Last quality barrel I had would shotgun until 15-20 rounds after cleaning, then it would settle down to where my mediocre skills would limit me out at about 1/4 minute. Most I ever ran at one time was 75 rounds-prefireing before leaving for the match.
One 6.5-284 with WS2 bullets never seemed to drop off----until my son borrowed it?

 

[zap]

Ok, i shot a few rounds and I'm back in business. It appears that my barrel does not like to be dirty. I will be able to confirm this with my go to load which i seem to have nailed down. So, i will be shooting the same load with my next 50 rounds that i load up, and will be monitoring.

Sure, their may have been other factors on that particular day, but I felt that I was on my game, holding extremely still with a consistent hold, etc, and no wind to speak of.
I would say, “ case closed “
Thanks everyone.