Dirty barrel and accuracy

[zap]

For those of you that have a good shooting barrel, ( lets say it shoots in the mid to upper two’s normally ), how bad does it shoot when it gets dirty ?

Can groups get as large as say, 7/8” at 100 yards , when your good shooting rig starts to get dirty ?

 

[243Mendoza]

Define 'dirty".

What caliber, what loads, what barrel, how many shots from last cleaning, how many shots total?

 

[rsmithsr50]

even in short range bench rest there is ipen discussion here.
some buys clean every relay 5 plus shots,, some clean every day, 25 -50 plus shots. pretty gun specific

 

[F Class John]

I can tell you 'cleaning' is a hotly contested topic (as are many things of course). I know guys that clean targets regularly after cleaning guns every time they shoot, and guys who clean targets cleaning only after hundreds of rounds. Find what works for you and your gun/barrels. In my local group (which is pretty large) I find that most guys get a rhythm that works for them and gives them confidence. There's lots of factors that can affect it as asked above; such as what bullets, calibers, powder, load (hot or mild), and of course barrel. At the end of the day, if you're used to shooting your gun and ammo combo, you'll KNOW when it's time to clean because you'll start seeing an ever so slight increase in group sizes. You normally shoot a 200-12x and now you're lucky to get 200-5x, time to clean. You rarely get a 200 but now you're averaging 198's, time to clean. Look for patterns that are specific to you and learn from that.

Just my 2 Lincolns.

 

[zap]

What I am asking is, to keep it plainly simple is,
has anyone had a gun that shoots very well when clean, and when you go beyond your normal cleaning interval, it gets very bad ?
Not looking to open up a big discussion on cleaning, etc. I suppose i may be able to answer this myself next time i shoot the same load that shot good in the past, but in the mean time , I thought I would ask.
Thank you

 

[F Class John]

What I am asking is, to keep it plainly simple is,
has anyone had a gun that shoots very well when clean, and when you go beyond your normal cleaning interval, it gets very bad ?
Not looking to open up a big discussion on cleaning, etc. I suppose i may be able to answer this myself next time i shoot the same load that shot good in the past, but in the mean time , I thought I would ask.
Thank you

Simple answer is yes. I'd say in fact that's pretty normal. It's the 'cleaning interval' that's open to interpretation.

 

[Nightraider]

100y isn't a determination of long range accuracy. I clean my barrel about 500-600rds. Until then it'll shoot 1/2min at 400-500y.

 

[Longtrain]

I don’t shoot BR, so I can’t tell you after so many shots it goes from .1 to .3 with all things being equal.

I shoot LR prone (irons) and LR F-Class, over a two day match, with sighters and 10 shots prior to the match to “dirty” the barrel, total rounds add up to approximately 160 rounds without cleaning. My barrels are cleaned after at most 200 rounds. If I can hold most shots in the ten ring with about a third to half my shots in the X ring. (10 and 5 inches, respectively at 1000 yards) I’m at my ability level. I work to drop less then 5 points in a 20 round string. Is that still accurate? For me, yes, how long would my barrel keep that up, honestly I don’t know, there are so many factors that play into results on paper that the only true way to quantify it would be to shoot in condition void of any human and environmental factors, those unfortunately are what is involved in shooting.
We all strive to build a rifle and a load that performs at top levels, add in factors and that equals the score on paper.
So, with all that being said, I should be able to shoot on average a 195-7x or better, if I shoot less then that (and I have and do), is it because of me and or environmentals? If the conditions are great and I feel I’m performing at my best, and don’t score, I’ll need to look at those things that should be a given, the rifle, scope or load. You’ll know when you are shooting well and when you’re not. You must have all factors in tune before you can judge the overall accuracy of you, your rifle and load.

 

[Uncle Ed]

Below a custom made hand lapped barrel.

Below a new button rifled Savage barrel.

And since I do not have any custom hand lapped barrels and most of my factory barrels are button rifled I use a good foam bore cleaner. This keeps the button rifling from eating bore brushes and giving a false copper reading. And a borescope will tell you when to clean and how much cleaning needs to be done.

Below foam bore cleaner and no excessive brushing, spare the rod and spoil the bore. The blue is disolved copper and the black is disolved carbon.

 

[watercam]

+1 for Uncle Ed. Factory and military surplus guns get cleaned often.
I also shoot prone/sling. The matches I attend (including a day of practice) run three days and we put 200+ rounds down range from 600-1000 depending upon the matches.
I have gone as long as 500-600 rounds in a .308 Palma gun without issue. At that point the barrel gets a very thorough cleaning to include JB paste products. These are, of course, custom barrels from well know sources.

 

[FrankG]

100y isn't a determination of long range accuracy. I clean my barrel about 500-600rds. Until then it'll shoot 1/2min at 400-500y.

That might work for some calibers but not all calibers.

Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels

 

[FrankG]

Define 'dirty".

What caliber, what loads, what barrel, how many shots from last cleaning, how many shots total?

Exactly what he says above.......

Too many varibles. What caliber, chamber etc...are you running? How many rounds on the barrel?

A 308win vs a 300WM are two different animals. On a new barrel I could see a 308win going say 500 rounds and no cleaning and hold 1/2moa. A 300wm though burning almost double the powder down the bore...not going to happen.

Same thing if you compare a 6BR vs a 243win.

Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels

 

[mike a]

What I am asking is, to keep it plainly simple is,
has anyone had a gun that shoots very well when clean, and when you go beyond your normal cleaning interval, it gets very bad ?
Not looking to open up a big discussion on cleaning, etc. I suppose i may be able to answer this myself next time i shoot the same load that shot good in the past, but in the mean time , I thought I would ask.
Thank you

Plain and Simple! Are you kidding. I'll bet this thread goes 10 pages of cleaning methods, chemicals and intervals. So allow me to pile on. Many people will disagree with me but I've found cleaning down to bare sparkling shiny metal costs me to many bullets. I will agree that layering carbon on carbon is a bad thing. But taking that very last layer of carbon is not. I can live with a few fouling shots but not a lot. Those Bergers aint cheap. I clean right after every match while the barrel is still relatively warm. I don't get real aggressive, just chemicals and a bronze brush. When the patches come out relatively clean that's it. I borescope at home and JB the carbon ring if needed. I know guys that shoot 500 before cleaning but mine shoots like crap at half that and who wants to clean after 500 shoots. Mike

 

[Daddymac]

I usually see better accuracy with a cleaner barrel than with a dirtier barrel, if you know what I mean.

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

My first factory M700 in 17 rem. 27 gr w760 25 gr bullet. Would see groups open at 12 shots and start to shotgun at 15. Good news first couple shots were always in the poa group so hunting fox with clean barrel didn't matter. Barrel was recalled by Rem and replaced the new one was good for more than 50 shots with same load. Rarely have to clean the new Lilja barrel, during load work and storage, never because accuracy went away.

 

[Nightraider]

That might work for some calibers but not all calibers.

Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels

Seems to work with all your barrels....

 

[sqrlgtr]

"DIRTY BARREL AND ACCURACY" dont belong in the same sentence nor at the rifle range....I do like a clean barrel but Im in the camp that thinks you dont have to go plum to bare metal,but if my barrel showed it needed it I wouldn't hesitate getting it that clean.Just my opinion though..

 

[slugflinger]

I think that like most, if not all aspects of our hobby, it depends on the particular firearm/barrel. I have some that seem as if they could shoot forever accurately without cleaning. Others that "get mad" after so many rounds, and still others (well at least one) that get really mad when cleaned. This particular barrel is a factory T/C Encore 7mm08 that throws rounds into 3" groups when clean, then puts the same loads slightly under an inch after about 8 to ten rounds are fired.

 

[K22]

With enough experience, your specific rifle will answer that question because every rifle can be different. One size doesn't fit all.

Like others have said, it depends on the quality of the barrel, the amount of over bore of the cartridge you are shooting, the cleaning method you use and age of the barrel.

I clean my 223's and 308's every 30 to 40 rounds - not because accuracy falls off magically at 40 rounds but because I don't want the carbon and copper fouling to build up and make it harder to remove.

I clean my 243's every 20 to 30 rounds for the same reason but the over bore nature of the 243 tends to foul quicker so I clean more frequently.

I found the Bore Tech products exceptional for removing carbon and copper fouling.

 

[Liven The Dream]

In my years of Blasting!​

That is Service Rifle to Prone Palma and Now F/ Class .
99% of my Cut Rifled Barrels would Shot a 2-3 day Match 130 - 190 Rounds just Fine and get me the Winner Circle or Place .

Then along came my Best of the Best Regional Winner Plus Barrel .

“If you don’t clean me after every Match “
You will drive Home very unhappy