Dilemma reloading AR15 for NRA High Power

[300WMAficionado]

Hey guys,

I just put in an order for a White Oak AR15 Service Rifle Upper, Post-Ban Configuration with Pinned 1/2 x 1/2 MOA Rear Sight. Caliber is 0.223 Wylde with a Wilson 20" HBAR Barrel 1:7" RH Twist. I have 6 month wait but that's ok with me.

I want to reload for High Power. I would like have a single bullet for across the course (2/600 yards) with a COAL that will be short enough to load in a magazine. I'm leaning toward the Sierra 80 gr. HPBT Match King.

Is it possible to shoot the Sierra 80 gr. and have the cartridge fit into the magazine?

 

[itchyTF]

When I shot High Power (many moons ago), I used the 69gr Sierra for 200 & 300 and the 80gr Sierra for 600. It's been too many years, but I don't think the 80 will seat correctly and still fit in the mag. The bearing surface on the bullet may not have much neck gripping it plus you'll loose case capacity. My 2 cents.

 

[effendude]

The Sierra 80 grain bullet is too long for mag length loading. Your best best for loading a single bullet for all distances is the 77 grain Sierra. The 77 can be loaded to mag length for rapid fire stages but it isn't nearly as good of a bullet for 600 yards. I suggest you load 69 or 77 grain bullets for 200 and 300, use the better 80 grain bullets for 600 yards. Your scores will show the difference.

Scott

 

[mac86951]

Don't try the 80gr at Mag Length, in order to keep pressures down, velocity will be low. I currently shoot F-class with my WOA AR (Varmint upper so I have optics since I can't see), also 20" barrel.

77 non-VLDs can be loaded to 2.260" (or 2.255 depending on mag). I'm using Sierra, but Nosler and Berger make excellent bullets as well. Hornady 75gr works great too. If you need something custom JLK 75gr VLD have been mag-length loaded.

F-class AR at 600 yards, is same as 600y high-power target with extra 1/2MOA X ring added. I've shot only twice and scored 375 out of 400 on my second event.

My load: 77SMK, 23.4gr Varget, Federal 205M primer. Velocity is 2650fps. You can get more out of mag length, but do the research on loading for accuracy and find your own rifle's accuracy node. AR-Comp is an excellent powder for this too, 21.8gr is 2670fps.

-Mac

 

[Gundog64]

You can load the Berger 82 to mag length and use that. There was a thread here a while back, myself and a few friends gave it a try. It does work, looks a little funny as the bullet is seated a bit deeper than most are used to, but it does work. Now I shoot one load across the course and it shoots very accurately.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

hornady 75 gr hpbt

 

[broncman]

First off, you have to shoot single load in comp f class etc so , stretch the 80 out!

I have shot some good scores with 77 smk at 600, but you better pay attention to the
wind. You can be competitive with the 77 but since you have the faster twist, make use if it and single load the 80's

 

[300WMAficionado]

I think the safest thing for me to do is to have 2 bullets. This completely eliminates the mag length problem. Oh by the way, I just ordered 3 20 round NHMTG AR15 magazines today from 44mag.com @ 29.99 each.

Setup will be something like this...
77gr. Sierra's for 2/300 yards
80gr. Sierra or 80gr. Berger VLD for 600 yards

Case: Norma
Powder: Re-15 maybe Varget
Primer: CCI BR4

Any suggestions/recommendations?

 

[mac86951]

First off, you have to shoot single load in comp f class etc so , stretch the 80 out!

No can do for our new local class F-AR
http://ziarifleandpistolclub.com/Documents/F-ARFlyer.pdf

This means I get to enjoy lots of mag-length loading experience in the future!


H4895 has been working well with the 77s, Varget is the default, but I am liking AR-Comp better, and don't forget to test with some N140 as well.

-Mac

 

[fdshuster]

Answer? NO. The bullet is way too long to be seated to magazine length for an AR. The base of the bullet would be approx. .580" below the case mouth, waaaaaay down in the case radically limiting case powder capacity. And, the ogive, at approx. .210" diameter would be below the case mouth so when the cartridge is loaded you will have a gap all around the circumference of the case mouth.

Off-hand slow fire & prone slow fire all require single load, so just load them to touch the lands for slow fire & use a shorter bullet like the 69 gr. #1380 for all rapid fire, at magazine length.

 

[rminut]

I think the safest thing for me to do is to have 2 bullets. This completely eliminates the mag length problem. Oh by the way, I just ordered 3 20 round NHMTG AR15 magazines today from 44mag.com @ 29.99 each.

Setup will be something like this...
77gr. Sierra's for 2/300 yards
80gr. Sierra or 80gr. Berger VLD for 600 yards

Case: Norma
Powder: Re-15 maybe Varget
Primer: CCI BR4

Any suggestions/recommendations?

get some LC cases and forget the Norma's. You don't need BR4's unless you already have them. Try Wolf/Tula, they are much cheaper and work very well.

Dryfire is your friend, embrace it....

 

[Taildrag15X]

get some LC cases and forget the Norma's. You don't need BR4's unless you already have them. Try Wolf/Tula, they are much cheaper and work very well.

Dryfire is your friend, embrace it....

This can't be stressed enough...get a dryfiring device, and use it!

 

[broncman]

The most accurate load with the best ES/SD in my kireger is N140/BR4/77SMK/Winchester brass combo. Shot my best score at 600 yards with it . 194/9X

Varget/fedgmmatchprimer/77/LC brass is very close !

 

[treeman]

for 600 yrds don't over look nosler 80gr custom competition

 

[polebilly]

I have to suggest 2 bullets. Though some folks shoot 77MKs straight across I've always had better results with 69s for 200&300 and 80s at 600. The 80s have always outdone the 77s at the 600 yard line for me.

 

[fdshuster]

polebilly: Same experience here: 80 gr. SMK (#1480) do better for me at the longer distances. The 77 gr. #1477 appear to have the same ogive contour as the 69 gr. #1380, whereas the 80 gr. have a much sharper profile, very close to a VLD. Maybe that has something to do with the better downrange performance.

 

[spclark]

Is it possible to shoot the Sierra 80 gr. and have the cartridge fit into the magazine?

No.

If you want to use just ONE bullet and also load ammo to mag-length only, you ought to use Sierra's 77-grain #1477.

Once you've shot a couple 600 relays & find yourself falling behind other shooters, buy & try some 80-grain #1480's & load 'em for single-load seated just off the lands.

If you're careful in testing first you might be able to use the same load as with your 77's yet your scores should improve....

Here's a great essay & load info that's been around literally for years yet remains useful:

http://www.radomski.us/njhp/cart_tech.htm

There have been new propellants, primers & bullets introduced since it appeared that aren't included of course but most everything in it is good stuff to know. Don't try to re-invent the wheel; just pick a load others put their faith in and shoot as much as you can.

 

[300WMAficionado]

Thanks for all of your wonderful responses gentleman.

I think the powder to use will definitely be Varget. For some reason I thought it was made by someone other than Hodgdon until just now lol! I have used Hodgdon H1000 in my custom built 300 Win Mag shooting Berger 210 VLD's and that powder shoots amazing. I can consistently shoot 1" groups at 300 yards! In essence, I trust Hodgdon powders and I think Varget wouldn't let me down for the AR.

Now why does everyone like Lake City brass so much? Isn't it once fired brass? I know it's mil-spec (thick case wall, drilled flash hole, crimped primers). But there has to be a wide variance in weight and dimension from case to case. If Lake City decides to sell some of their fired brass to the public, then you know that several different lots are all getting mixed together. That's what I'm most concerned about. It just seems like it wouldn't be as consistent as commercial brass all from the same lot. My ultimate goal is to get this AR shooting accurately with <1 MOA. Is Lake City brass going to give me the accuracy I desire?

 

[dbforce]

300WMAficonado,
People like Lake City brass because it is cheap and "good enough." It is available unfired. The only time I bought it, (LC84) I had 350 split case mouths out of 1000 and this was new brass. I have not heard of others having this problem with newer lots. I got about 7 firings out of that batch before the primer pockets got loose then I went with IMI brass which is practically Lapua quality compared to LC. As for commercial brass, I would say that most people use Winchester. The upper you describe will easily shoot sub MOA right out of the box. The beauty of service rifle is that you can pick just about any load and it will shoot as good as you can hold. I used VV N140 and Sierra 77's for 200/300 and 80's for 600.

 

[mac86951]

Thanks for all of your wonderful responses gentleman.


Now why does everyone like Lake City brass so much? Isn't it once fired brass? I know it's mil-spec (thick case wall, drilled flash hole, crimped primers). But there has to be a wide variance in weight and dimension from case to case. If Lake City decides to sell some of their fired brass to the public, then you know that several different lots are all getting mixed together. That's what I'm most concerned about. It just seems like it wouldn't be as consistent as commercial brass all from the same lot. My ultimate goal is to get this AR shooting accurately with <1 MOA. Is Lake City brass going to give me the accuracy I desire?

As far as brass consistency, an AR isn't as picky as a bolt gun. You won't find much improvement in neck-turning, or brass weighing. Do what you're comfortable with, Once-fired brass is ok, but better once its been fired through your rifle. Do uniform primer pockets and flash hole, as well as deburr the flash hole. I've been using brass that others say is garbage, but it works for me (Federal) and I removed the mil-crimps with RCBS swager. FL size and bump shoulders ~0.004 from fired cases to prevent chambering issues.

-Mac