Digital Scales
- Thread starter jefats
- Start date
Turbulent Turtle
F-TR competitor
You can trickle directly, but it may take a few seconds for the GP to detect the delta.
With the Omega trickler, I can count the kernels of Varget needed to get to my target weight and once they are on the pan, I lift one side with the tweezers and drop it because I do not want to wait for 4-5 seconds each time. When I load 100 or 200 cases, that extra starts adding up.
Each kernel of Varget is 0.02gr and so, I don't feel the need for higher precision; it's not like I'm going to chop up kernels.
With the Omega trickler, I can count the kernels of Varget needed to get to my target weight and once they are on the pan, I lift one side with the tweezers and drop it because I do not want to wait for 4-5 seconds each time. When I load 100 or 200 cases, that extra starts adding up.
Each kernel of Varget is 0.02gr and so, I don't feel the need for higher precision; it's not like I'm going to chop up kernels.
First, my claim that it can consistently measure within 0.02 grains is based on using the scale for more than 3 years, thousands of weight measurements, and using calibration standards - a fact many people on this board can also testify. The difference between my claim and what rinoray’s claim is that he is comparing the FX-120i to the GemPro 250 without any comparison data from a study done side-by-side – That is a much higher hurdle.
The FX120i may in fact be able to detect trickling in a more responsive manner, I don’t know this since no one has shown us data demonstrating this. However, even giving it the benefit of the doubt the question is would that be worth the difference between $600 vs $115? The answer really depends on whether you know how to use the balance.
First, you never lift the pan every time you change the weight – that is not the correct way to use the balance. If you sits and waits for the sale to settle after dropping a single kernel of Varget, then I can understand the frustration and feeling that the scale is “unresponsive†but that is also because that technique is also not the best way to use an analytical balance. A better way to use a GemPro 250 is to tickle in what you need, put the spatula lightly on the pan to “over weight†the scale slightly and wait for it to settle. This happens very quickly in less than a second and the resulting weight is correct and reproducible.
Bayou shooter is absolutely correct that once you have experience weighting your powder, you know exactly how many kernels to add or remove to get to your target weight. The same applies to say TAC which is a smaller spherical powder but in that case five spheres = 0.02 grains.
The FX120i may in fact be able to detect trickling in a more responsive manner, I don’t know this since no one has shown us data demonstrating this. However, even giving it the benefit of the doubt the question is would that be worth the difference between $600 vs $115? The answer really depends on whether you know how to use the balance.
First, you never lift the pan every time you change the weight – that is not the correct way to use the balance. If you sits and waits for the sale to settle after dropping a single kernel of Varget, then I can understand the frustration and feeling that the scale is “unresponsive†but that is also because that technique is also not the best way to use an analytical balance. A better way to use a GemPro 250 is to tickle in what you need, put the spatula lightly on the pan to “over weight†the scale slightly and wait for it to settle. This happens very quickly in less than a second and the resulting weight is correct and reproducible.
Bayou shooter is absolutely correct that once you have experience weighting your powder, you know exactly how many kernels to add or remove to get to your target weight. The same applies to say TAC which is a smaller spherical powder but in that case five spheres = 0.02 grains.
Sray53TXTN
Silver $$ Contributor
My old RCBS digital scale of 23 years has seen its last days. Originally made by Oahus, sadly RCBS nor Oahus markets it anymore and cannot refurbish it. So, it's time to make a move.
I would appreciate any information as to what's out there now and comments pro/con.
Note, I'm not averse to a pendulum type either since I've had to enlist my very first RCBS 5-10 model in the interim.
Thanks and Merry Christmas to all.
There you have it!
I would appreciate any information as to what's out there now and comments pro/con.
Note, I'm not averse to a pendulum type either since I've had to enlist my very first RCBS 5-10 model in the interim.
Thanks and Merry Christmas to all.
There you have it!
Turbulent Turtle
F-TR competitor
jlow said:
I learned something new on this thread, thank you Jlow for that little gem of info. I loaded 100 rounds yesterday using my "Chargemaster short charge, transfer to GP250 and Omega trickle the rest" technique. By using the your advice on pushing on the scale rather that lifting the pan, I got much faster response. Also, it got to the point where I could line up the required number of kernels on the Omega dispenser and the pop them in the pan with the tweezers to get a perfect weight most times. I was able to load and seat bullets on 100 cases in 124 minutes, just a shade over two hours. I did reweigh several loads at random and the weight was always spot on. That little GP250 rocks.
Thanks again, jlow, and thank you rinoray for starting this thread.
Glad to be of help, it’s an old trick we use in the lab that really speed things up for us.
The whole idea is it overcomes that inertia which has to be overcome by the very small amount of weight that has been added and let the scale settle down naturally to what it should be. The only caveat is to be very careful the amount of over-weight that you add as if this was done in a heavy handed manner; it can potentially damage your scale since they are delicate instruments. This is why I gently put my spatula on the pan and then immediately take it off without pushing down on the pan. Since the weight of the spatula I use is light and well within the specs of the scale, you know it will not damage it.
The real lesson here for all of us is just because we have fancy tools with impressive specs does not mean that we don’t need to understand a bit about how they work, why they don’t work well in some situations, and how one can overcome these draw backs. Technique plays a big part in the successful operation of all instruments.
The whole idea is it overcomes that inertia which has to be overcome by the very small amount of weight that has been added and let the scale settle down naturally to what it should be. The only caveat is to be very careful the amount of over-weight that you add as if this was done in a heavy handed manner; it can potentially damage your scale since they are delicate instruments. This is why I gently put my spatula on the pan and then immediately take it off without pushing down on the pan. Since the weight of the spatula I use is light and well within the specs of the scale, you know it will not damage it.
The real lesson here for all of us is just because we have fancy tools with impressive specs does not mean that we don’t need to understand a bit about how they work, why they don’t work well in some situations, and how one can overcome these draw backs. Technique plays a big part in the successful operation of all instruments.
I think that a majority of people on this forum who have purchased the FX-120i have bought it from Cambridge for $400 and this price has been quoted on this thread and several other threads on this forum numerous times and not the $600 you keep referring to.jlow said:
I have owned 2 GemPro 250's and still own one of them and a FX-120i and I am much happier with the FX-120i. I think that a majority of the people who have used both will tell you that it was worth the price compared to whatever they paid for the GemPro 250. Go review prior threads on this forum concerning this issue.
The other thing is the Customer Service of GemPro. I tried to contact their Customer Service by both email and telephone numerous times and never received one response from them. I finally called the vendor where I purchased my GemPro 250 and they told me that this is a constant complaint to them about GemPro, the inability of the customer to contact them. Because it was over 30 days since I had purchased the scale I could not return it to the vendor. The vendor told me to just return it to GemPro with no return authorization or contact from them and I should receive a new scale. I did this and did receive a new scale but the process took several months with never a telephone call, letter or email from GemPro about what was going on. I was so frustrated and tired of waiting during that time to hear from them that I ordered the FX-120i for $400 based off of information from this forum, received it in a few days and moved on in my reloading. Before I ordered the FX-120i from Cambridge I called them several times with questions about their scale and I found their Customer Service to be extremely helpful.
First of all, the $600 number I used came from Reply #12 an FX-120i user, and was not something I came up with.
Your “review†of the comparison between the GemPro250 and the FX-120i is like all the ones I have seen which is it is a purely subjective instead of objective one. Objective means you have data to support it, and subjective mean you “feel†it is better. In the scientific world, subjective reviews have no place. FWIW, most people who buy a more expensive alternative usually say they prefer the more expensive one because it is how they rationalize to themselves that they did not waste their money. Not saying that this is what is happening in your case but if you don’t give us anything more concert than what we have seen, you will forgive us for not taking it too seriously.
I won’t debate the CS with GemPro since I have never had to test it. But look at it this way, let’s assume that you are correct, I have used mine for more than 3 years and if it broke tomorrow, did I get what I paid for and more, absolutely. So unless you can show us that the scale always breaks in a short period, I would argue that I would much rather buy 4 GemPro 250 than one FX-120i which still do not yet have a track record.
Your “review†of the comparison between the GemPro250 and the FX-120i is like all the ones I have seen which is it is a purely subjective instead of objective one. Objective means you have data to support it, and subjective mean you “feel†it is better. In the scientific world, subjective reviews have no place. FWIW, most people who buy a more expensive alternative usually say they prefer the more expensive one because it is how they rationalize to themselves that they did not waste their money. Not saying that this is what is happening in your case but if you don’t give us anything more concert than what we have seen, you will forgive us for not taking it too seriously.
I won’t debate the CS with GemPro since I have never had to test it. But look at it this way, let’s assume that you are correct, I have used mine for more than 3 years and if it broke tomorrow, did I get what I paid for and more, absolutely. So unless you can show us that the scale always breaks in a short period, I would argue that I would much rather buy 4 GemPro 250 than one FX-120i which still do not yet have a track record.
I love my fx120i!
And yes it will read individual kernels of varget.
I used a Jennings Mac 20 before good scale for the price but be prepared to weigh the same charge several times to be confident of consistency and drift. I have not used the Jennings since I got the 120i. It is expensive but it will be money well spent.
And yes it will read individual kernels of varget.
I used a Jennings Mac 20 before good scale for the price but be prepared to weigh the same charge several times to be confident of consistency and drift. I have not used the Jennings since I got the 120i. It is expensive but it will be money well spent.
You are right that Reply #12 does mention the $600 number but in the same post he mentions the $400 number twice, and that is $400 Canadian which is less than $400 US. But I can understand why you would want to use the $600 as it increases the differential between the cost of the GemPro 250 and the FX-120i to help you get your point across.jlow said:
Since we are on the second page, I think it is worthwhile setting the record straight. The question was never about whether the FX120i is a good scale, search the thread and you will not find anyone saying it is not a good scale. The only question was whether it was a better enough scale to justify the difference in price and if so what is the justification.
Sorry, we are actually on the third page....
Sorry, we are actually on the third page....
Jason Boersma
Silver $$ Contributor
I use a Gem pro 250 and it will weigh individual kernels of varget also. I have had mine for a year now and no problems and the only time mine drifts is when the air conditioner kicks in.
Sometimes it is difficult to quantify the exasperation that I have encountered with my GemPro 250 and their Customer Service other than to say my frustration level is lower and I enjoy reloading more with my FX-120i. I am sure a lot of it is subjective but I have more confidence in my FX-120i. Just think, if GemPro's Customer Service had been more professional and they had taken better care of me in a timely manner I may still be using a GemPro 250 but on the other hand their incompetence is what caused me to look for another scale and settle on the FX-120i and for that I should thank them.jlow said:
I have learned a vast amount of reloading knowledge on this forum and for that I thank the members who share so much with the rest of us. That is how I learned about the FX-120i when I was in need of a new scale. I am glad you are happy with your GemPro 250 and the money you have saved.
Raythemanroe
Bullet Whisperer
Is the FX-120i or the Gempro-250 a magnetic force restoration scale?
For the $115 that Will Knotts is getting for the GemPro 250, it is hard to beat.
http://www.oldwillknottscales.com/my-weigh-gempro-250.html
Mine has been spot-on for the 3-mon I've owned it. Give it at least 30min of warm-up and put the ferrite noise suppressor on the power cord and it is quite stable. Very pleased thus far. Compared to the older PACT it replaced, it is very fast and accurate to 0.02gn compared to the PACT's 0.1gn.
http://www.oldwillknottscales.com/my-weigh-gempro-250.html
Mine has been spot-on for the 3-mon I've owned it. Give it at least 30min of warm-up and put the ferrite noise suppressor on the power cord and it is quite stable. Very pleased thus far. Compared to the older PACT it replaced, it is very fast and accurate to 0.02gn compared to the PACT's 0.1gn.
The FX-120i is a magnetic force restoration scale.. I keep mine on "medium" (speed of reading and displaying the weight) and it is 3 times as fast as the Gempro I still have.. I simply like the way it performs better than any other scale I have tried.. Whether it actually weighs more accurately or not, it makes the life of a reloader considerably nicer>>>period..
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