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Digital case volume meter

......... snip.............Again, my focus is ultimately on what can be shown on a target. If something can't be demonstrated on a target, then for me, it's not something I am going to pursue.

I'll put forth the argument that it is worthwhile to pursue potential improvements to our ammo even though we can't actually prove them when the bullet strikes the paper.

I do a lot of testing and I know for a fact that much of what we do can't be proven on paper, or at least it can't be proven to a high degree of certainty without getting to the end of the barrel life first. Shooting a good 3-shot group isn't proof of anything.

Most of guys I shoot with do pretty much what I do when it comes to making "the good stuff". We use Lapua brass, for example. We avoid mixing powder lots and we weigh our powder on a precise scale. Many of us weight sort our bullets and cases and some measure case volume. We uniform our primer pockets and deburr flash holes. We chamfer our necks both inside and outside, and so-on and so-forth. You get the idea.

I suspect a reasonable amount of testing will show the difference between one charge of Varget and another charge one grain heavier. We determine that all the time during testing and most of us believe we can tell the difference with some reliability using 5 shot groups perhaps confirmed later on with a more extensive test before we call that particular recipe our "go to competition load".

But I defy anyone to show me improved match scores based on uniforming Lapua primer pockets vs just ignoring that step. When I say "show", I mean presenting statistically significant data. Can anyone show me higher match scores caused strictly because they measure the water capacity of each cartridge vs simply sorting them by weight, or not sorting them at all?

I think demonstrating REAL improvements in match scores "on the target", which is where it really counts, because of taking (or not taking) one tiny step is essentially impossible for anyone who is involved in this sport as a hobby. Nevertheless, most of us take these steps anyway.

Why? Well because most of what we do in the reloading process involves taking care all along the process to make the best possible ammo with the belief that even though an improvement attributable to a particular step is impossible to prove by itself, we believe that all the tiny steps add up to make a difference. And most of us believe that taking care with these tiny steps is worthwhile enough to give us an edge over the guy shooting next to us. We do it because we want to win.

Said another way, giving my wife 12 red roses for her birthday may or may not produce better results than giving her a 12 pack of beer, but I believe it to be true. The little things do add up over time, or at least I think they do. The 12 back of beer may yield good results, but I'm gonna' bet that the roses will produce better results even though I may not be able to prove it.
 
How much would long distance shooters be willing to pay for an accurate digital case volume meter? No more messing with liquid and the associated clean up. Much, much faster volume sorting of cases. I have the design complete and should have a prototype built and tested by Christmas. I will have to machine the parts on my CNC mill.

Digital tubing micrometers can run into hundreds of dollars. Would $250 be too much for something that has heretofore been non-existent and will do the job accurately, quickly and efficiently?

Ron

When you get one built you need to demonstrate accuracy and repeatability. Sounds like a nightmare to calibrate and measure air pressure in tiny amounts. What kind of sensors could you buy to measure extremely small changes in air flow or pressure? Some of the best shooters don't sort brass.
 
At $250 you'll sell them. Anything that helps you sort out a variable sells whether it really helps ot not. I suspect at the highest level it may/will help and then everyone will have to have one whether it helps us or not, lol.
 
You have my attention, but also my skepticism. I can't even imagine how such a thing would work.
 
I can't even imagine how such a thing would work.

I can, but I’m not enough of an engineer to design anything, let alone fabricate it for the kind of price point the OP’s suggesting.

I’m sure “Autotrickler Adam’s” thinking about it now though....
 
I can, but I’m not enough of an engineer to design anything, let alone fabricate it for the kind of price point the OP’s suggesting.

I’m sure “Autotrickler Adam’s” thinking about it now though....

More specifically, I can't imagine a way to do this quickly *and* accurately. If someone pulls it off cheaply as well (which $250 certainly would be), I'll be very impressed and probably buy one. You know what they say- fast, cheap, good. pick two.
 
Make a prototype, then repeat my test. No one who has posted has shown or mentioned any on-target information that validates the concept. That doesn't mean you should not do a test. I would not go into production without a prototype and on-target proof of concept. My testing was at 100 yards, since that's the longest indoor range I know of. You will not be able to demonstrate a 1,000 yard improvement due to variations in wind, which is greater than the effect of the variable being tested (case capacity), and that will make testing invalid under those circumstances.
The difference in vertical at on paper at 1000 yards will show up if cases are segregated into similar volumes. The wind may well blow you around however if shot round robin the volume sorted cases will agg less vertical in my humble experience.
CW
 
Put me down for interested. Like Damon mentioned, accurate, quick and inexpensive usually don't go together. That said I'd be willing to test one, although would have to wait for Spring to test at long range.

A few years ago I did a one off test at 1000 taking weighed cases and weighed bullets. Put extreme heavy and light together (heavy bullet in heavy case, heavy bullet in light case, light bullet in light case, light bullet in heavy case, x5) and shot all round robin at 1000 for elevation. There was a difference on paper (with one combo hitting about 1 in higher on paper) but 1) not statistically different) and 2) I can't hold that difference in a normal match.

Doesn't mean I still don't weight sort for big matches.....

Drew
 
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Without internet capacity being the same I don’t think you can keep ES low
But checking case capacity All the cases must be shot in the same chamber . Then trimmed to the exact same length .
I don’t do it that way the tool I have made I check off the shoulder and part of the neck and use Alcohol .
Larry
 
solidworks has a program that calculates internal volume. expensive. not sure how it could take into account the variations in brass thickness which is the real cause of variations in internal volume
 
Oh, I am sure there will be lots of people that want them. Even if it doesn't do anything on the target, there will be heated Internet discussions by advocates that will insist that any serious shooter will have to have one to be competitive, and if you don't "volumize" your cases you are a heathen...
 
TESTING what?
The OP has said he has a tool to easily and accurately measure case volumes, nothing more. This tool will need testing for consistancy etc.
Once the case volumes are measured and the variations known, for some shooters the next critical step may be to make all volumes the same, otherwise what has been achieved. Sorting by volume also has a tolerance of choice.
Having cases of "equal volume" fixes one key element in achieving better accuracy.
How the volume of a case is easily and accurately changed is the next important question IMO.
LC
 

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