Different cases will not chamber

[BillGulledge]

Have Winchester and Remington cases, all fired in tje Same Sako .270 and full length resized and trimmed. With Winchester cases found bullet seating deapth on lands with colator. Set seat die to that deapth. Winchester cases will chamber, Remington cases will not. Seat deapth on both with colator measures 2.860. Why won't the Remington cases chamber?
Question 2: Remington cases are Nickel finish, Winchester are brass. Inside neck diameter on fired nickel case before resizing 0.282, Winchester. 0285. Neck thickness on both 0.016.
Are both equally good for reloading?

 

[Poor Shot 65]

I am assuming that you bumped the shoulders back for the cases (when you resized them) ? Did you measure the cases after you bumped the shoulders back ? Did you try to chamber just the case (prior to seating the bullet) ?

 

[Doom]

Best guess is the base of the case on the Remington cases has ex[anded more than the Winchester. Second guess is headspace is not correct on the Remington.

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

Did both brands after firing, before sizing, still chamber and extract properly?

 

[6.5 forever]

If it doesn't work for you, then it doesn't work.

 

[nettle]

When things like this happen I am glad I have case gauges.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

May just be a case of splitting hairs too fine for variable components. We strive to be too perfect at tims.

What does a fired case measure to the case datum vs a sized case?

I like a MINIMUM of .002 shoulder push back when sizing. That's typically enough to do away with those types of variances in brass, etc. If you're trying for a thou or less, that's likely the issue, imo. I think it's not likely related to the bullet but MIGHT be. Tell us more. It may be the neck shoulder junction and inking a case will tell you where the interference is occurring on the case. Then, there's always the subjectivity of "won't chamber". How much force? I mean, are we talking zero feel or enough resistance that you literally have to struggle to close the bolt? Lots of difference there and it may tell the story.

 

[K22]

Without before sizing and after sizing case measurements, it's difficult to ascertain the cause.

I have never used nickel bottle neck rifle cases. They are notoriously difficult to size and can easily scratch the interior surface of you die. If your F/L die does not contact the shoulder of the case when sizing, then the case can be extruded (lengthened).

The problem should be sort out before seating bullets. You need to make sure the sized case is sized for optimum chamber fit. A bump gauge and caliper are the best way I know to monitor this with a spot check in the rifle chamber with firing pin assembly removed so you can correctly assess the amount of bolt closure resistance.

 

[NorCalMikie]

If one brand of brass will chamber and another won't, it's NOT a headspace issue!!

 

[Capt. Oblivious]

Make a case black with a sharpy or candle and "chamber" it, you will see where it gets stuck
My guess is also at the base

 

[mgunderson]

Please check to see if the shoulder datum is the same on both brands after sizing. Different brands or finishes with size differently. They can also behave differently when seating the bullet. I expect you will find some variation in the measurements.

 

[dellet]

Checking base to shoulder datum will likely show the answer. Clarification is needed to your loaded length and if you loaded to touch the lands or jam, how far off the lands you think you are.

According to your measurements the inside diameter of the fired nickel cases are .003” smaller in diameter than the Winchester. That’s a good indication that it was either a light load, the nickel brass is much tougher, or both.

If there was not enough pressure to open the neck of the nickel brass, there was not likely enough pressure to push the shoulder forward either.

Since you set the COL to the brass case, and the strong possibility that the nickel case is shorter base to shoulder, there’s a good chance that touch with the brass case, is hard jam with the nickel case.

Overall length does not automatically determine jump or jam. Distance to the lands is determined by neck length when the overall length is the same. The shoulder should stop the forward movement of the cartridge into the chamber, but if you measure to touch with one piece of brass, and the next has a shorter base to datum length, more headspace, the neck will be longer and the closer or deeper into the chamber or bore.

Base to datum can vary more than .010” on new brass between manufacturers. Fire forming brass with that much variation has enough problems. Adding nickel and brass variation just complicates that more.

Find touch with a nickel case or just seat a bullet deeper for a quick and easy check. Either way you need to be able to measure base to datum, if you’re going to into the lands. A few thousandths can make a big difference in pressure if you’re not expecting it.

 

[K22]

If one brand of brass will chamber and another won't, it's NOT a headspace issue!!

In my experience, different brands of cases can size differently at the same setting of the F/L die.

I would expect the nickel cases, due to their hardness, might aggravate the sizing consistency issue.

 

[Mark611]

JMO, but if you're going to FL size your cases every time you reload. this is what I use to check my cases with, and it will help you get your die set up for your rifle, a Sheridan slotted case gage, I also use the Hornady tools, but once you everything set up all you need to do is drop your cases in this gage, it's a go/no go gage, if your cases are not sizing properly this gage will show you what's going on with them!

270 WIN Ammunition Gauge

Choose between SLOTTED or NON-SLOTTED. AMMUNITION GAUGES are uniquely designed to check loaded ammunition, giving you the ability to check your factory ammunition or reloads against a spec chamber. The gauge is machined to the SAAMI minimum chamber spec for the 270 WIN caliber. This…

sheridanengineering.com

 

[NorCalMikie]

In my experience, different brands of cases can size differently at the same setting of the F/L die.

I would expect the nickel cases, due to their hardness, might aggravate the sizing consistency issue.

Could ALSO be a annealing issue. One harder/softer than the other.
Silver and gold don't act the same.
Try re chambering the fired cases. If it will chamber and the bolt closes without too much extra effort, you're good to go. Neck size and get to shooting. Again, maybe an annealing issue?

 

[K22]

JMO, but if you're going to FL size your cases every time you reload. this is what I use to check my cases with, and it will help you get your die set up for your rifle, a Sheridan slotted case gage, I also use the Hornady tools, but once you everything set up all you need to do is drop your cases in this gage, it's a go/no go gage, if your cases are not sizing properly this gage will show you what's going on with them!

270 WIN Ammunition Gauge

Choose between SLOTTED or NON-SLOTTED. AMMUNITION GAUGES are uniquely designed to check loaded ammunition, giving you the ability to check your factory ammunition or reloads against a spec chamber. The gauge is machined to the SAAMI minimum chamber spec for the 270 WIN caliber. This…

sheridanengineering.com

That slotted feature is really nice, you can actually see the fit.

I use the Wilson gauge as a qualitative tool the check for SAMMI fit but it has a + or - .005" go / no go step which is too much for me. So, my quantitative check is always with a Whidden Bump Gage and caliper. It only takes a few minutes to check 3 to 5 cases in a group to be sized. This way I know the exact case head space measurements within the tolerance of the caliper.

By mounting the single piece Whidden bump gauge on a dedicated caliper, I have reduced my meausement inconsistency to 0. This is due to have a single piece gauge with no inserts, a permanently mounted gauge on a dedicated caliper, and refining my measurement technique.

Also, after measuring hundreds of fired and sized cases over the last 3 years across 10 different rifles and 4 different brands of cases, I have discovered that by having a dedicated group of cases assigned to a specific rifle and rotating their use, I can F/L to zero bump, often 10 or more reloads, if then before I notice a need to increase the bump. Using Skip shims under the F/L die lock ring makes adjustments easy, simple, precise, and economical.

 

[K22]

Could ALSO be a annealing issue. One harder/softer than the other.
Silver and gold don't act the same.
Try re chambering the fired cases. If it will chamber and the bolt closes without too much extra effort, you're good to go. Neck size and get to shooting. Again, maybe an annealing issue?

I do not anneal, never have. I am not saying that it is not beneficial, I just never wanted to add another step to the process. Also, if done improperly, it can cause more problems than it solves.

I never had any trouble chambering reloads once I switched from neck sizing to F/L sizing completely. The key to successfully F/L sizing for optimum chamber fit is to measure and monitor fired and sized case head space. Also dedicating cases to a specific rifle and rotating their use greatly enhances the process at least in my experience.

What I learned over many years of F/L sizing hundreds of cases across 10 different rifles and 4 brands of cases was that if a fired case chambers without any issue, then there is no need to bump the shoulder. Once fully fired formed to the rifle chamber, you have optimum fit. Then for me, the goal is to retain that optimum fit, i.e., not over sizing nor under sizing.

The reason I believe that F/L sizing is superior to Neck sizing is the F/L die also sizes the radial dimension of the case which is all that is necessary in most cases. Also, the F/L die aligns the neck with the body of the case.

 

[BillGulledge]

Thanks to each of you for sharing your information. Your responses highlite how much I have to learn about reloading though I have been reloading for hunting for 40 years. Now that I am looking for more precision in my loads, I have alot to learn.
When I FL resize with my 40 year old RCBS press and dies I cam over. I set the die 1/8 turn past (lower) than touching the shell holder. Is that correct?
Can I shoulder bump with regular FL resize die? How do I measure it?
Shoulder datum--where is it and how do I measure it?
Someone asked what I mean by "won't chamber the nickel cases." I mean I can't close the bolt without a hammer.
Mark611 suggested a Sheridan go no go case gauge. What is the remedy if a case is a no go?
My issues started with my quest to fine tune seat deapth. With Winchester cases I adjusted seat die so bullet just touches lands - no jam. Nickel cases with same seat die setting won't chamber.
Further testing showed that with Winchester cases about half the seated bullets measured .008 shorter than the other half, and in seating these bullets there was no resistance on the press handle as the bullet was pushed into the case. Why are these cases different?
All cases had been fired and resized an unknown number of times.
I am a hunter, not a bench rest shooter but I would like to getat least 1 moa accuracy from my rifles. I have a press, dies, a digital micrometer, and a bullet colator with caliber inserts. What oth
Any input will be appreciated.

 

[BillGulledge]

Oop

 

[BillGulledge]

I did not finish my last question. What other tools do I need?
Thanks