Die set up

[ArtinNC]

I have a new 222 Redding FL die . I'm using a Short Action Custom bushing that has the shoulder that matches the 222 shoulder , to measure my head space . My Forster go gauge measures .813 , and the no go measures .816 and my new brass Lapua measures .812 and the fired brass measures .822 . So if I set my die to touch the shell holder, I push my shoulder back .009 shorter than my fired brass . So now I have a gap between the shell holder and the die of .010 to correct this . And you are to have the shell holder touch the die to have it set up right . So now what ???? Yes when I put the no go gauge in the gun bolt shuts easy , so the gun smith cut the chamber to deep ,so now what ??? The 222 shoots pretty good but in the 2's and I want to shoot in the 1's the gun would shoot in the 1's with the old barrel . Still playing with my loads .

 

[DaveTooley]

The gap between the shell holder and die is meaningless. Adjust the die to get the amount of shoulder bump you need. I don't go by any fixed measurement. I strip the bolt and creep down with the die until I can just close the bolt with little to no resistance.
I'm not sure how your bushing will work in a Redding die that already has the shoulder built into the die.

 

[Edd]

You need to size your brass to fit your chamber. You can leave the gap in the setup or you can buy a set of Redding Competition Shell Holders. There will be an .008" and a .010" tall shell holder in the set.

 

[Webster]

The gap between the shell holder and die is meaningless. Adjust the die to get the amount of shoulder bump you need. I don't go by any fixed measurement. I strip the bolt and creep down with the die until I can just close the bolt with little to no resistance.
I'm not sure how your bushing will work in a Redding die that already has the shoulder built into the die.

Believe the above comment: Touching the shell holder is a starting point for beginners. Adjust on shoulder bump only. It should size the body enough. They should chamber easily.

 

[bozo699]

You need to size your brass to fit your chamber. You can leave the gap in the setup or you can buy a set of Redding Competition Shell Holders. There will be an .008" and a .010" tall shell holder in the set.

These are the lazy man’s way of setting up shoulder bump but the end results if done correctly will be the same either way.
Wayne

 

[bozo699]

I have a new 222 Redding FL die . I'm using a Short Action Custom bushing that has the shoulder that matches the 222 shoulder , to measure my head space . My Forster go gauge measures .813 , and the no go measures .816 and my new brass Lapua measures .812 and the fired brass measures .822 . So if I set my die to touch the shell holder, I push my shoulder back .009 shorter than my fired brass . So now I have a gap between the shell holder and the die of .010 to correct this . And you are to have the shell holder touch the die to have it set up right . So now what ???? Yes when I put the no go gauge in the gun bolt shuts easy , so the gun smith cut the chamber to deep ,so now what ??? The 222 shoots pretty good but in the 2's and I want to shoot in the 1's the gun would shoot in the 1's with the old barrel . Still playing with my loads .

If it shot in the .001’s before then use your old setup you used before the sac bushing. I have no clue how your able to get the sac in a Redding die in the first place.
Wayne

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

So the no go chambers and you haven't talked to the gs?

 

[ArtinNC]

The gap between the shell holder and die is meaningless. Adjust the die to get the amount of shoulder bump you need. I don't go by any fixed measurement. I strip the bolt and creep down with the die until I can just close the bolt with little to no resistance.
I'm not sure how your bushing will work in a Redding die that already has the shoulder built into the die.

I'm not using the sac bushing in the die, I just use it to measure for head space with my calipers.

 

[ArtinNC]

I said I use a sac bushing to measure the brass length for head space .

 

[ArtinNC]

So the no go chambers and you haven't talked to the gs?

No , because I don't want a shorter barrel or a missed up chamber . just load to fit the chamber . and every thing I read says you have to have the shell holder touching the die . And want your thoughts on them not touching . So I guess it's ok not to touch . And work some more on my loads

 

[DaveTooley]

My bad. My concern would be the mismatch of the radius at the neck and shoulder junction. If using a bushing with a much larger neck diameter it would lesson the chance of a mismatch and an inaccurate reading.
Yes you adjust the die to match the chamber. The instructions that come along with die have to start somewhere.

 

[AWS]

The competition shell holders are the easy way, I have four different 222s and never have to touch the die, just change out shell holder and just bottom out the fl die on the shell holder, very consistent. I've started doing it with a lot of the ammo I load. I can switch dies from press to press, or worry about slop in the linkage. In my data I list the shell holder for that rifle along with the load data.

I have competition shell holder sets for .378(2 sets), .440, .473 and .532.

 

[swd]

It's completely ok for the die to not touch the shell holder. Set the die to give you the shoulder set back you want. Myself I look for .002"- 0025". Like Dave said make sure your not introducing any miss match to give a false reading. The best thing to do is ask whoever chambered it to make you barrel stub gage with same reamer it was chambered with.

 

[K22]

No , because I don't want a shorter barrel or a missed up chamber . just load to fit the chamber . and every thing I read says you have to have the shell holder touching the die . And want your thoughts on them not touching . So I guess it's ok not to touch . And work some more on my loads

What you should be seeking is optimum case fit to a specific rifle chamber. This is not difficult to achieve if you follow a few basics.

First, start with virgin case and dedicate them to a specific rifle. Rotate their use. I consider this critically important to consistent case fit.

Second, it may take a few firings before the cases are fully fire form to the chamber. In the interim, the shoulder should not be bumped as long as the cases chambers without resistance.

Third, the amount of shell holder contact with the die is totally dependent on the fire case measurement versus the desire sized case measurement. Some presses require direct contact with shell holder and die, some require vary degrees of cam over, some may require some off set. Almost all the one I have ever seen are the first two conditions, but I have also observed the last one. It's really irrelevant, it's the case measurements that are deciding factor.

To make die adjustments easy and controlled, Redding Competition Shell Holders or Skip Shims can be used. I highly recommend them in making die adjustments to change sizing.

Using the bump gauge and caliper requires some practice and technique to obtain consistent measurements. Practice exercises to assess repeatability of measurement is a good method to polish your technique.

 

[358WCF]

No , because I don't want a shorter barrel or a missed up chamber . just load to fit the chamber . and every thing I read says you have to have the shell holder touching the die . And want your thoughts on them not touching . So I guess it's ok not to touch . And work some more on my loads

I think the original thinking behind needing to touch the shellholder to the die has to do with taking the slop out of the coarse threads of your die/press interface. It seemed to make sense decades ago when I read about it. Recently haven't bothered. I use a Bonanza Co-Ax mostly now so only concerned with keeping cartridge/headspace dimension where I want it. The Hornady gauge is useful, but I used a variation of Dave Tooley's method for a long time before getting one.

If you really think it may help you can always get a thick washer or two ( I used to use an old rear axle nut from a VW because it's what I grabbed from the spare parts/junk drawer) & temporarily place them atop of the shellholder & raise to the top of stroke to load the die before tightening the lock ring. It turned out to be one of those things that just didn't matter. An O ring replacing the shellholder clip &/or another larger O ring under the lock nut will do as much or more to help align the dies if you're having problems. The decapping stem nut is never tight either, but an O ring might also work there too if you want to snug it.

Edit: Sometimes the die was hard against the shellholder & sometimes there was a rather large gap between them after set-up when using a threaded press. There is no "right" way to do it (cam over, not touch etc.) except fitting your brass to your chamber with your dies & your process.

 

[6.5 forever]

The gap between the shell holder and die is meaningless. Adjust the die to get the amount of shoulder bump you need. I don't go by any fixed measurement. I strip the bolt and creep down with the die until I can just close the bolt with little to no resistance.
I'm not sure how your bushing will work in a Redding die that already has the shoulder built into the die.

Dave I follow this. Gauge's are nice but you don't need them if you follow this procedure. My Whidden die has the click ring and it helps me do this.

 

[ArtinNC]

My bad. My concern would be the mismatch of the radius at the neck and shoulder junction. If using a bushing with a much larger neck diameter it would lesson the chance of a mismatch and an inaccurate reading.
Yes you adjust the die to match the chamber. The instructions that come along with die have to start somewhere.

The sac bushing has the same tapper as the 222 on the shoulder and the neck in the bushing is .250 same as my chamber. So I think it should be pretty good .
I just wish that you had chambered my barrel .

 

[DaveTooley]

The sac bushing has the same tapper as the 222 on the shoulder and the neck in the bushing is .250 same as my chamber. So I think it should be pretty good .
I just wish that you had chambered my barrel .

Do this and see what you see. Take a magic marker to the neck and shoulder junction. Slide the bushing on the case and give it a twist. See what gets wiped off. I would be surprised if there isn't a ring around the neck.

 

[old codger]

Buy the Hornady Comparator device. Using it measure your fired cases and get an average value. Set your sizing die to set the shoulder back .002' -.003". Measure your sized cases and make sure it shows you have set the shoulder back properly. Test your sized cases by chambering it in your gun. If it chambers properly with no excessive effort then you are good to go.
You can do the same thing with the caliber specific RCBS Cartridge Mic.

 

[TTE]

when I put the no go gauge in the gun bolt shuts easy , so the gun smith cut the chamber to deep ,so now what ???

That is correct.
IMO .... you should have the barrel set back and
re-chambered to be safe.