Did Rem change the 700 over the years?

[4xforfun]

My Dad bought 4 new Rem 700's back in the early 1960's....a 222, a 22-250, a 270, and a 7mm Rem Mag. They were all ADL's and he bought them as a set. He bought them right when the 7mm came to be!! We lost the 222 and the 270 when our business burned to the ground in 1966, but the other two are still alive(kinda). The 7mm is still AS IS except for a new stock, and the 22-250 bbl was replaced by a 22-250 AI that NEVER shot, and that was replaced again last year with a Krieger 243 1-8 twist. I posted about this gun last fall,because it would not shoot. I changed everything.....bullet, powder, scope.... and it still will not shoot worth a lick!! I was going to mount the action into one of my own comp stocks to test, but it will not fit. First off, it has 3 action screws, not two like the rest of my 700's. Also, the front and back action screws are spaced different then my actions and DO NOT LINE UP WITH ANY OF MY STOCKS.

Anyone have any idea on this?

Thanks,
Tod

 

[Cold Bore]

...but it will not fit. First off, it has 3 action screws, not two like the rest of my 700's.

ADL's use three screws (one small one to hold the front of the trigger guard). BDL's use two.

However, all actions have the three holes, you just don't use the smaller middle one for BDL bottom metal.

Also, the front and back action screws are spaced different then my actions and DO NOT LINE UP WITH ANY OF MY STOCKS.

Unless you are using a short action (22-250) in a long action stock (270, 30-06, 7mm Rem Mag, etc), or vice versa, they certainly should line up.

Another thing to keep in mind if swapping stocks.... ADL and BDL magazine boxes are not the same depth (which has nothing to do with your screw spacing issue, just something to think about before you split the wood on the bottom of a stock).

 

[Ggmac]

Long action = 7 mag

 

[Dans40X]

All 721/722/700 actions are 3 screw.
The only difference in 4,5,6,7 digit 700's to current production 700's-
4,5,6 digit bolts didn't have the anti bind slut in RH lug/action.
4,5,6,7 digit rear receiver ring radius.
4,5,6,7 digit rear receiver ring broach cut slot.
4,5,6,7,A,B,C receivers were drilled & tapped for receiver sight/base.
4,5,6,7,A,B,C bolt bodies are cut for bolt lock safeties.

A 1/2 dozen bolt handle variations from 600/660,721-22's/700's/40X's

 

[4xforfun]

First off...I am ONLY talking about the short actions.
The middle screw screws into the action, not just the stock. The action in question is an ADL, and I don't use the mag box in my comp stocks.

I guess I should have been more clear..I am ONLY talking about the SA 22-250.

I could get buy with out using the middle screw, but the fact the the front and back holes don't line up is the problem.

 

[4xforfun]

OK....looks like I could get the holes to line up on the front and back action screws, so, never mind on that. MY BAD!! There are idiots in this world, and I am their KING!!
So, the question I have is....do ALL SA adl's have the middle screw screw into the action?

 

[Cold Bore]

So, the question I have is....do ALL SA adl's have the middle screw screw into the action?

Yes, all short action (and long action) ADL's have the center screw inserted into the bottom of the action, from the factory, to hold the front of the trigger guard in place.

Most guys leave it just snug enough to hold, to not induce any unnecessary strains (flexing) in the center of the action.

Another option is to cut off the screw, and glue the head into the trigger guard screw hole, strictly for appearance sake.

 

[Rustystud]

The current 700s the primary extraction cams are located .0065" counter clockwise from actions made to Mike Walkers original 1963 drawings.
Nat Lambeth

 

[4xforfun]

Thanks guys...I guess I lived in a BDL world, and now, a BAT world, so I wasn't up on the workings of the ADL!!

On a side note, I decided to check the age of these REM's. Since the BBL is long gone on the 22-250, I grabbed my 7mm and checked the BBL stamp. "J" 1962. So, I can assume that the 22-250 (now 243) is the same age.

Going to shoot two more groups with the MBR tracker stock and see if anything changes. If not, I will wash my hands of the whole thing!!

Thanks for the info. Looks like I just wasted your time and some band width on ALGOR's interweb!!



Tod

 

[wiuprof]

Thanks guys...I guess I lived in a BDL world, and now, a BAT world, so I wasn't up on the workings of the ADL!!

On a side note, I decided to check the age of these REM's. Since the BBL is long gone on the 22-250, I grabbed my 7mm and checked the BBL stamp. "J" 1962. So, I can assume that the 22-250 (now 243) is the same age.

Going to shoot two more groups with the MBR tracker stock and see if anything changes. If not, I will wash my hands of the whole thing!!

Thanks for the info. Looks like I just wasted your time and some band width on ALGOR's interweb!!



Tod

Tod,
I also have an ADL 7-Mag with a "J" , 1962 production. It is my understanding that it was the introductory year of
both the Model 700 and the 7 Rem. mag cartridge. Mine is serial # 27xxx.

Joe

 

[BoydAllen]

I have a question about your rifle that won't shoot. What has been done about its bedding?

 

[4xforfun]

I have a question about your rifle that won't shoot. What has been done about its bedding?

OK...did the last test last night. here is what I have done to date:

We were running 105 Hybrids and H1000....crappy groups. 1.5 inch 3 shot groups at 100, with no discernible pattern..sometimes strait horizontal.....some times verticle...two and ones...etc...
Changed out the scope and checked the bases. Same
Went to the 108 BT...same
Went to IMR 4831...same.
Yesterday I swapped the stock to one of my 1000 BR stocks. Now..I know that the fit won't be right, but ..I was looking for change. SOMETHING different. SAME

Now, the original stock has had some sort of bedding job...kinda ugly. But switching to a different stock changed nothing..other than the impact point, which changed about 7 inches in the different stock. That sets off some red flags, although I don't know why.

So, now we have had two different BBLs on this gun...a 22-250 AI and the 243. BOTH shoot like crap. I can't believe that truing up the action can possably fix this. Don't know what to do next.

Here is a picture of the last four groups. The smallest is .9 and the biggest is 2.02....shot at 100. The reason for the powder jump between 41 and 42.5 is that the 41 had given me the best results from an earlier test, and 41.5 and 42 were BAD, so I shot another group at 41 and went a little higher. I shot at about 10:00 last night under the lights. ZERO wind. Also, I have no idea why the last group all of a sudden printed an inch and a half lower. ANTHER RED FLAG??

I am tempted to screw the BBL onto my 6-47 L platform and try it. It shoots small!! If the head space is to much I will make a false shoulder (al la dasher) and fire form some of the brass. If there isn't enough head space I will loosen the BBL till they fit and shoot it that way. JUST KIDDING!!

 

['Freak]

Can’t expect the thing to shoot well if the action has always been forced to conform to the stock’s inletting, and the inletting will always be a bit different from one stock to the next. And what, if anything, was done to/for the action while it was in your ‘smith’s possession for screwing it on the two new, different barrels? Unless three barrels, including the original, were all duds then it stands to reason that the cause of it shootin’ poorly is still there awaiting discovery.

 

[4xforfun]

Can’t expect the thing to shoot well if the action has always been forced to conform to the stock’s inletting, and the inletting will always be a bit different from one stock to the next. And what, if anything, was done to/for the action while it was in your ‘smith’s possession for screwing it on the two new, different barrels? Unless three barrels, including the original, were all duds then it stands to reason that the cause of it shootin’ poorly is still there awaiting discovery.

It shot GREAT as a factory 22-250 for 35 years. Same stock. When it was re tubed to the 22-250 AI back in the 90's I think he had the smith bed the stock. I don't know if he did anything to the action, as the gun is not mine. All the last smith (my smith) did was chamber and fit the 243 Krieger ....nothing more. That is all the owner wanted done. And, I know that my guy is top notch!!! The first smith....not so much!!

I am going to a shoot this weekend and I think I will dump this on my smith! LOL

I am just wondering how much to spend on this project, and where to spend it. Like I said, truing up the action is not going to turn 2 inch groups into 1/2 inch groups.

Here is a pic of the bedding job that was done in the 90's.

 

[BoydAllen]

Overall, I would say that you have insufficient respect for the importance of properly done bedding, which these days would be a pillar bedding job, and how important that that can be to accuracy. By properly done, I mean for that exact, individual action. I would never spend much time trying to improve the accuracy of a rifle without doing that. Does your smith have a bore scope? That is another source of information that can be helpful. One thing that I am always amazed by is that shooters seem to want to deal with some local guy who has no particular reputation for building competitive target rifles, when for about the same cost, they can have the work done by someone who has those sorts of credentials. There is noting mystical about a rifle. They are collections of parts that work best if everything is concentric and straight, and the barrel is good. If someone knows what he is doing, he should be able to solve your problem. If he cannot, I would question his abilities. Of course all bets are off if someone has put a curse on your rifle, in which case you will need to have it exorcised before having it bedded.

 

[4xforfun]

Overall, I would say that you have insufficient respect for the importance of properly done bedding, which these days would be a pillar bedding job, and how important that that can be to accuracy. By properly done, I mean for that exact, individual action. I would never spend much time trying to improve the accuracy of a rifle without doing that. Does your smith have a bore scope? That is another source of information that can be helpful. One thing that I am always amazed by is that shooters seem to want to deal with some local guy who has no particular reputation for building competitive target rifles, when for about the same cost, they can have the work done by someone who has those sorts of credentials. There is noting mystical about a rifle. They are collections of parts that work best if everything is concentric and straight, and the barrel is good. If someone knows what he is doing, he should be able to solve your problem. If he cannot, I would question his abilities. Of course all bets are off if someone has put a curse on your rifle, in which case you will need to have it exorcised before having it bedded.

Boyd,
I do indeed understand the importance of a good bedding job, along with a quality smith. I used Clay Spencer for most of my compeditive shooting work. He has since pretty much retired. My current smith has done lots of work for me , including building the LG I used to win those 2011 IBS 1000 yard national titles, along with most of the work on my HG.

The gun shot good bone stock, After the first trip to the smith in the 1990's is when it went to sh!t. I know that when he did the 22-250 AI he also did the bedding work. It looked bad, and I posted a picture. (did you have any thoughts on the image?) This could very well be the cause of the problem. I also know that simply setting the action into one of my BR stocks is also not the answer. BUT...I was hoping for a change...good or bad..to help point me in the proper direction.

Now, if this was mine it would be wearing a new McMillan stock and I would have had the action trued up (again?) six months ago!!! I very much respect your imput, as I realize that you have forgotten more about this stuff than I ever knew!!

Thanks,
Tod

 

[Ggmac]

Your stock is split .

 

[4xforfun]

Your stock is split .

You must be seeing something that I am not, because I have the stock in my hand and after close inspection I see no cracks.

What am I missing?

Thanks,
Tod

 

[DCRYDER]

First thing I would do is remove the bedding from the chamber area, front of recoil lug, and sides of recoil lug. I have never had a rifle shoot well with the chamber bedded.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

You got possibly some fire control issues. Get your gunsmith to put another trigger in there just to test it and check all that over with a new spring. Thats cheap enough just to test. And then properly bed it and test. Then try another scope AND rings/bases and test. If its not those cheap fixes try one more barrel. I assure you one of those i mentioned will fix it and i gave them to you in the order that id try.