Did I get ripped in on my 2013 purchase??

[flatlander]

A friend told me about a 2013/2011 prone rifle on Gun Broker last winter - just looking at it kinda gave me a case of the hots for it, and it had a starting bid of $1800, including a set of Anshutz's best sights & a few other items. I bid the minimum, and kept watching it, expecting at least a few other interested buyers to up the ante. Apparently, this particular auction didn't show up very often on searches, because I wound up winning what appeared to be a nearly NIB rifle for that minimum bid.

Downside was that I decided I couldn't justify keeping my fine old 1611, and sold it to a friend who is just getting started in NRA conventional midrange prone, where a good rifle like mine would make an excellent trainer. While I still feel I got an excellent buy on the 2011, it doesn't shoot quite as well as my old 1611(which I bought from Mac Tilton years ago), and after reading some of the little 'gotchas' with the square 2013 action, I'm wondering if I would've been better off just keeping my 1611. Not that I've given up on working with the 2011 - need to get a set of longer reach metric allen wrench sockets to work with my torque wrench & experiment with action screw torque. This rifle's stock didn't have a mark on it, nor was there any sign that it'd been tampered with. The bore had just the faintest hint of the little 'sparkle' that's seen in the bottom of the bore with a borescope that would indicate it had been fired - but very little. I'm pretty sure I got my money's worth - especially since the sight set that came with it lists for around $500...

 

[USMCDOC]

A friend told me about a 2013/2011 prone rifle on Gun Broker last winter - just looking at it kinda gave me a case of the hots for it, and it had a starting bid of $1800, including a set of Anshutz's best sights & a few other items. I bid the minimum, and kept watching it, expecting at least a few other interested buyers to up the ante. Apparently, this particular auction didn't show up very often on searches, because I wound up winning what appeared to be a nearly NIB rifle for that minimum bid.

Downside was that I decided I couldn't justify keeping my fine old 1611, and sold it to a friend who is just getting started in NRA conventional midrange prone, where a good rifle like mine would make an excellent trainer. While I still feel I got an excellent buy on the 2011, it doesn't shoot quite as well as my old 1611(which I bought from Mac Tilton years ago), and after reading some of the little 'gotchas' with the square 2013 action, I'm wondering if I would've been better off just keeping my 1611. Not that I've given up on working with the 2011 - need to get a set of longer reach metric allen wrench sockets to work with my torque wrench & experiment with action screw torque. This rifle's stock didn't have a mark on it, nor was there any sign that it'd been tampered with. The bore had just the faintest hint of the little 'sparkle' that's seen in the bottom of the bore with a borescope that would indicate it had been fired - but very little. I'm pretty sure I got my money's worth - especially since the sight set that came with it lists for around $500...

When i first saw these actions.. my first thought was "one can't put a square in a round hole" meaning that it might be hard to get to shoot. I like the concept... but sometimes what is on paper don't work so well in the field!

 

[ebb]

ebb, the match grade ammunition used in this rifle doesn't lead the barrel.

What makes you think that the previous owner always used match ammo?

 

[Rtheurer]

A friend told me about a 2013/2011 prone rifle on Gun Broker last winter - just looking at it kinda gave me a case of the hots for it, and it had a starting bid of $1800, including a set of Anshutz's best sights & a few other items. I bid the minimum, and kept watching it, expecting at least a few other interested buyers to up the ante. Apparently, this particular auction didn't show up very often on searches, because I wound up winning what appeared to be a nearly NIB rifle for that minimum bid.

Downside was that I decided I couldn't justify keeping my fine old 1611, and sold it to a friend who is just getting started in NRA conventional midrange prone, where a good rifle like mine would make an excellent trainer. While I still feel I got an excellent buy on the 2011, it doesn't shoot quite as well as my old 1611(which I bought from Mac Tilton years ago), and after reading some of the little 'gotchas' with the square 2013 action, I'm wondering if I would've been better off just keeping my 1611. Not that I've given up on working with the 2011 - need to get a set of longer reach metric allen wrench sockets to work with my torque wrench & experiment with action screw torque. This rifle's stock didn't have a mark on it, nor was there any sign that it'd been tampered with. The bore had just the faintest hint of the little 'sparkle' that's seen in the bottom of the bore with a borescope that would indicate it had been fired - but very little. I'm pretty sure I got my money's worth - especially since the sight set that came with it lists for around $500...

I did the same thing except I did not sell my 16 series. I was real disappointed with the 20 series I purchased as I expected it to shoot as good as the 16 Series or even my old 40X. Nope. I called the multi National prone champion and he told me all about what you read above and the complexities of getting them 20 series to shoot. I have had such good luck with the older stuff that I thought they all shot like that. does not seem to be the case just dumb luck on my part it guess. Since then I Found another 1613 and it hammers too. 2013 sits in the safe.
By complete happen stance I added some weight to the barrel and Violla the 20 series started show a lot of promise! Needs a Tunner it turns out. Just not into it now though as it left a bad taste in my mouth. Ill stick to the round actions. Or a Turbo.

 

[Fotheringill]

Some thoughts on the accuracy issues that you have experienced. I apologize in advance if they are somewhat random in sequence.

1. Check the three (3) capscrews on the side of the action that clamp the barrel in place. Is there any red locking compound over the top of the capscrews? If so, this indicates that the barrel has not been exchanged from the original factory position.

2. If the locking compound is not present, the barrel may have either been exchanged for another barrel or moved from the original position. There is a specific tightening sequence to replace the barrel and as previously mentioned, this is an area that is torque sensitive. A low torque setting for these screws has been used by many with excellent results.

3. Check the tightness of the nut on the end of the bolt assembly. If this is loose, the firing pin does not strike consistently or with the full spring force. You might want to take the bolt apart and make sure that the firing pin is not broken/damaged and that the bolt was properly assembled. Note, no lube is necessary on the bolt internals.

4. Check the location of the trigger. If, when closing the bolt, the firing pin indicator moves, then the trigger is not in the proper location. Accuracy may suffer.

5. Also mentioned, cleaning and technique is more important than ever - especially if you are switching between different brands of ammunition. The different waxes used to lube are not all equal - and accuracy may suffer if you don't start with a clean barrel.

6. Can you provide some additional information for additional analysis? Photos are best, but at least:

• stock material
• bedded with our without pillars
• is the original bedding cross still in the stock or was it removed
• was headspace checked
• does the barrel have any "choke" at the muzzle
• barrel material & manufacturer
• condition of the crown
• what is your method of cleaning
• do you use a bore guide
• do you use brushes and if so, what material

7. Can you post some photos of the groups you experienced at 100 yards? Not to be critical, however smallbore at 100 yards is NOT an easy task even while using flags. As recommended, start out at 50y/m and work up to 100 yards after you get some suitable results.

8. Are you using a tuner (either muzzle / mid-barrel / both)?

9. What torque sequence are you using for the action bolts? Not only torque amount, but also sequence of tightening?

10. Can you do a blue check of the bottom of the action to the bedding? In addition, does the action exhibit any type of rocking when installed or during tightening of the action bolts?

11. What was your testing sequence for ammo at 100 yards?

12. What was the conditions during testing, including wind, light and mirage?

13. Does the barrel fully free float? This may sound dumb, but on rare occasions even the target stocks can be inletted improperly - I had this situation on my 1813....

14. Did you thoroughly check the stock for cracks? Does not matter if metal or wood - it can happen to either. Now, this would not apply to the new Precise stock as if that has a crack, you have MUCH bigger issues to deal with!

15. Check that the action screws are not bottoming out in the action. Take a black marker and darken the top of each bolt, install and torque to spec. Back them out and see if there are any marks on the top of the bolt indicating that contact is being made (not good).

16. I would recommend throwing this out on Delphi Forums Smallbore Accuracy and on TargetTalk - many of the prone and 3-p shooters are very familiar with this action and will be able to also provide additional thoughts.

I hope this gives some additional insight on tracking down the issue.
Best Regards,
ken

ken- You covered everything

 

[Anschutz]

In response to Rthuerer's post; I too have a 2013. Had to have a bloop for old eyes, so got a tuner with the bloop — upfront — after talking with "The Patriot," about his tuner and doing some research. So, cannot comment on how it shot WITHOUT a tuner. WITH the tuner, it took/takes some effort to "discover" what it likes. I'm retired so can take the time/effort; however, many shooters are still employed and most likely have limited time to test. For example, while residing in Colorado, I tested ammo indoors one day (50 & 100 yards) with a scope of course, for about 6 hours or so, but I live in a Deep Southern State. I still "feel" relatively new to testing .22 ammo and don't know if that's the norm (6 hours) or if shooters want/hope to find the best ammo with the first box. Mine shoots Tenex & Match in the 1071-1074 velocity range "within" or "at" two different tuner settings, and shoots this the best at 100 yards, will shoot it at 50 yards, but also have some 1061 for 50 yards. It didn't matter the tuner setting for anything below 1061 or above 1074, especially over 1080, as it shot ALL over the place. Is this the norm? I don't know. This was with the 2313 stock (factory barrel.) Did not like the stock, so sold it last year and got a Master Class Stock last week. Have a scope on order to "retest" ammo already mentioned. I "a-n-t-i-c-i-p-a-t-e" it will shoot as good or better in the new stock. So, am I saying a wood pillar bedded stock is better than an aluminum? Certainly NOT!!! Let's don't "go there." TOO many variables to consider. At any rate, although I don't know the "norm," or if there is a "norm," I'll have to agree with Rthuerer about it's "complexities," to find ammo, as he has more experience with his several different barrels. Now, consider the title of this post, "Did I Get Ripped?" Well, as usual, that "depends" on what you're trying to accomplish and what ends that you will go to achieve such. Personally, I don't think that I got ripped; however, I had an 1813, that wish I'd kept but needed the funds for a complete new rifle. Hope this helps. Regards.

 

[Anschutz]

SKJ+ —>Also, as I forgot, it will shoot "loose" cleans (12-16X) on the 50 yard card - in prone, but the SKJ+ will not shoot in my 2013 at 100 yards. But, I use it sometimes in practice at 50 ONLY, but not a match and always clean the barrel before/after Eley. It did not like Lapua Center X at 100, so didn't bother with it at 50. Have some Midas+ to try, since it's 1073. May try the X-ACT, just depends.

 

[willymakit]

SKJ+ —>Also, as I forgot, it will shoot "loose" cleans (12-16X) on the 50 yard card - in prone, but the SKJ+ will not shoot in my 2013 at 100 yards. But, I use it sometimes in practice at 50 ONLY, but not a match and always clean the barrel before/after Eley. It did not like Lapua Center X at 100, so didn't bother with it at 50. Have some Midas+ to try, since it's 1073. May try the X-ACT, just depends.

Send it to Lapua!!!!

 

[Hi-NV Shooter]

Send it to Lapua!!!!

I agree, found some C-X that shot 12mm at 50m and 18mm at 100m and that is 10-shots outside to outside 12mm=.470 18mm= .700 my friends 1813 did 13mm with the same lot

 

[scott1119]

I bought a MPR 64 used, Best I could get out of it at 50 yards was about a half inch group with tenex and r 50. I came home and flooded the barrel with foaming bore cleaner and cleaned the snot out of it, took it back to the range the next day and easily cut the groups in less than half, and now it will even shoot wolf match extra as good as the premium ammo.

 

[Fotheringill]

There are SO many variables with rim fires, cheap, average, premium and custom alike.

It can take a few thousand rounds to find the right brand, speed, lot number and tuner settings.

It is frustrating but rewarding when you get a 246-249 on a USBR green card.

You may have a turkey and maybe not. One thing that has not been mentioned except by reference to "shooter technique" is how you squeeze the trigger. How sensitive is your trigger to variations in your finger placement and squeeze direction in throwing off a shot?

 

[rayjay]

In the unsanctioned RF BR matches at my club we shoot both 50 yards and 100 yards. This means I have shot and scored quite a few 100 yard targets shot from super accurate rimfires. Below is the first pair of targets I shot at 100 when first doing the testing on which target I wanted to use at 100. We ended up using the target that you see on the lf which is a 200 yard IBS centerfire target.

For our rimfire use we shot 5 shots at each record bull. So here you have 5 representative groups from a 2013 that I had at that time. All the groups were shot with the same ammo [ Eley match EPS ] , same rifle, same shooter, same windflags, same rest and bag, same everything. So you see the typical range of group sizes that a 22 is going to shoot at 100. That lower left hand group is a mid .3 and is EXCEPTIONAL. The wind settled down nicely and I was able to get all 5 shots off in the same condition. It actually took us about 4 years before somebody finally shot a 250 at 100 yds. Note that the 10 ring is 1" in dia.

The moral of the story is that ammo testing a 22 at 100 yards is a waste of time and money. Do your testing at 50. Once you find some ammo that the gun really likes then you can start shooting at 100. Even then you will have lots of large groups. The merest little change in the wind that doesn't even show up on the flags will send the little bullet off to la la land.

 

[rayjay]

BTW, good luck with the wife. I had some severe health issues 21 months ago and the only thing I've done with gun stuff since then is sell ...... About to start thinking about hitting the range though Life is good !

 

[1813benny]

ebb, the match grade ammunition used in this rifle doesn't lead the barrel.

Unfortunately, this is not a factual statement. Lead ammunition will result in lead deposits in the barrel and it does not matter if it is match ammunition or plinking. The rate at which lead will deposit in the bore depends on several factors, including but not limited to, the surface finish of the bore, the leade angle, the type of ammunition and lube, how often the rifle is cleaned, along with that techniques are used, type of bore cleaner, etc.

Regards,
ken