Did Berger change their 130 Hybrid? P/N 26195 (Pics)

[MikeMcCasland]

About 2 months ago I ordered some 130 AR Hybrid OTM Tacticals (P/N 26195) to run in my .260 AR10. My smith recently completed a 700/Bartlein .260 build so I figured I'd order some more to try in that rifle; they arrived this week.

I was in the middle of loading up tonight, and noticed that in addition to the new fancy berger packaging, the bullets were different (same p/n).

The older boxed Bergers were .727 base to ogive, and the newer ones are .673 base to ogive.

Old Box Bergers were .290 (G7) / .564 (G1)
New Box Bergers are .287 (G7) / .287 (G1)

Anyone know what happened?

 

[Clancy]

I’ve been shooting them a couple of years. They all look like the ones on the right. Every batch is different and I recommend a seating depth test with each batch. I buy mine in 500 count boxes for this reason.

Judging by the red reflection, that left one has a much shorter bearing surface.... strange.

 

[jwing]

1 is AR one is not.. At are shorter. But I had a 2 box of 130 vld lot that we’re Ar hybrids some one messed up.. always check. They very a little lot to lot...

 

[MikeMcCasland]

1 is AR one is not.. At are shorter. But I had a 2 box of 130 vld lot that we’re Ar hybrids some one messed up.. always check. They very a little lot to lot...

I though the same too initially, but its the same P/N. The AR marked ones are the longer ones per my measurements.

 

[dkhunt14]

Base to ogive is not the best way to measure, the boatail can vary. Usually as bullet dies wear the bullet gets fatter and shorter. Lube is another thing that can really change the measurements of formed bullets. Different lots of jackets can change it also. I have seen big variations of bearing length in different lots of the same bullet. Matt

 

[steve123]

A friend and I opened a new box of the AR hybrids last light, the meplats are smaller as well.

 

[Ned Ludd]

Some of that could be Lot-to-Lot variance, some might reflect a slight design change over time. Berger most certainly has changed the reported (box) BC values over the years as they have done further testing and/or made changes to their bullets. A direct call to Berger could probably provide you with something more tangible than speculation.

 

[MikeMcCasland]

Some of that could be Lot-to-Lot variance, some might reflect a slight design change over time. Berger most certainly has changed the reported (box) BC values over the years as they have done further testing and/or made changes to their bullets. A direct call to Berger could probably provide you with something more tangible than speculation.

Yeah, I'll call them when they open on Monday. Feels like a whole new/different bullet.

 

[FURMAN]

Every-time Berger runs a new batch of bullets they test them and update the bc accordingly. You will see this with every Berger I have every used. Unlike other companies who just seem to slap an estimated bc on the box Berger seems to care a little more. As suggested above it would not hurt to do a seating depth test with the new lot.

 

[Clancy]

1 is AR one is not.. At are shorter. But I had a 2 box of 130 vld lot that we’re Ar hybrids some one messed up.. always check. They very a little lot to lot...

Are you sure about that? I know in the beginning some of the boxes said AR and some didn’t. I’m pretty positive they are all the same thing and say AR Hybrid on the box now.

 

[johnfred1965]

When I first started reloading, I bought 1K 55gr FMJ bullets for my 223. They were in 100 count packs. I opened them up and dumped them all into a peanut butter jar. I went through all my brass and trimmed it up to crimp for an AR. When I loaded, I couldn't get hardly any to line up the the crimping groove. At 5or 6 dollars a hundred, I should have expected the variation and various lots in one bulk pack. I understand Lot to Lot variations, but for 50 bucks a box, I would expect more uniformity, Not only between bullets in the same lot, but as a consistant product across lots. I don't shoot a lot of competition, but I would think that between two bullets that are obviously different visually, an entire new load workup would be warranted. Just my .02

 

[MikeMcCasland]

Figured I'd post a quick follow-up. I just got off the phone with berger tech support; they said no change to their dies at all. He said you'd see occasional lot to lot variance, and mentioned they'd seen ~.050 before.

Basically....load em up and shoot em; said if you left your seating die alone you'd see no difference in seating depth.

The new bullets shot lights out this weekend, so I guess I don't much care so long as every berger I get from here on out is like the newer box.

 

[barefooter56]

About 2 months ago I ordered some 130 AR Hybrid OTM Tacticals (P/N 26195) to run in my .260 AR10. My smith recently completed a 700/Bartlein .260 build so I figured I'd order some more to try in that rifle; they arrived this week.

I was in the middle of loading up tonight, and noticed that in addition to the new fancy berger packaging, the bullets were different (same p/n).

The older boxed Bergers were .727 base to ogive, and the newer ones are .673 base to ogive.

Old Box Bergers were .290 (G7) / .564 (G1)
New Box Bergers are .287 (G7) / .287 (G1)

Anyone know what happened?

Mike,
This will help clear up the BC questions :http://www.bergerbullets.com/update-of-berger-bullets-performance-data/. Also we have discontinued the ORANGE and TAN bullet boxes. For a while here the box labels will be yellow so read the bullet description on the box to make sure you are getting what you want! In the future the HUNTING bullets will have an ORANGE end panel on the label. The TACTICAL bullets will have a TAN end panel and the TARGET bullets labels will be all YELLOW.
In regards to bullet dimensions , tolerances, and production procedures see here: http://www.bergerbullets.com/information/why-berger/ . THIS INFORMATION IS PER LOT ONLY.

 

[Clancy]

Figured I'd post a quick follow-up. I just got off the phone with berger tech support; they said no change to their dies at all. He said you'd see occasional lot to lot variance, and mentioned they'd seen ~.050 before.

Basically....load em up and shoot em; said if you left your seating die alone you'd see no difference in seating depth.

The new bullets shot lights out this weekend, so I guess I don't much care so long as every berger I get from here on out is like the newer box.

That’s strange. I have to move my die to maintain the same BTO. I use a comparator that measures .257 inside, so I don’t think it’s lying.

But, if yours shoot good don’t touch the die haha

 

[Iowa Fox]

Its hard telling. Over the years when Berger sold to someone the quality went in the toilet on more than one occasion.

 

[6BRA]

which seating stem are you using on the 130 OTM AR Hybrid?

thanks! Standard or VLD?

 

[Rat Rifle]

Ancient History Alert !

 

[6BRA]

yes...I agree it is an old post and in the wrong forum...was just hoping for an answer as these have been hard to come by and I have not received yet. Berger rep has confirmed VLD stem. Forum master feel free to delete the last posts by me.