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Defiance Rebel or Pierce

butchlambert
I have a couple Pierce receivers and love them. Mine have no cerakote on them. I'm not too crazy about painted rifles.
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Butch,
I am glad that your Pierce actions turned out well. I also understand that many people don't like cerakoted/painted rifles and that a coating may present additional challenges to craftsmen. However, I don't see how any self-respecting/honest craftsman would send out not one, but two rifles knowingly that they're defective from the beginning. That is exactly what happened to me. I've had friends at the range open and close the action and they all say the same thing "Something is wrong here."

Additionally, since I posted my comment above, a couple of members here told me that they've had issues with their unpainted Pierce actions. They prefer to keep things quite because they want to sell those actions/rifles to someone else.

It is my opinion that when someone does good work, they should be recognized for their diligence, skill and integrity. Conversely, when someone shows shortcomings in those areas should also be exposed so that others buyers can avoid being abused. It is very disheartening when I spend my hard earned money for a custom action only to later discover that a $500 factory action may have been a better choice. It could taint, by association, other honest craftsmen.

Kindest regards,

Joe

P.S. I'm in the process of building another rifle, guess who isn't on my list of actions?
 
Dans40X said:
Buy the best, Borden. The ONLY action made that is timed right out of the box. It is designed right and built right

Third choice would be a Pierce
Anything from MT or TX isn't in my vocabulary


My first choice is a Barnard (no Rem pattern trigger group will compare)
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As a Montana boy I take offense. ;D

WHY is the Borden so superior?
 
1. The lug abutments and the bolt handle primary extraction ramp are the correct helix and are precisely aligned together.

2. The bolts are designed for correct ignition and pin alignment and wear internally.

3. They are timed precisely. As close to perfect handoff as there is.

4. The "bumps" give a super tight bolt in the closed position without unduly close tolerances in the open position.

5. Jim Borden stands behind his work. If it isn't right, he makes it right.
 
I have several pierce actions. All are cero coated or painted as some like to say. They all need a couple drops of oil on the bolt to run smooth. And they are smooth as glass and shoot great. Sure if it were a stock action with a ton of clearance it wouldn't need lube it would give the illusion that it is smooth. If your not happy with it send it back to them they will fix it. It sucks when you spend a bunch of money on anything and your not happy.
 
Jim Borden has been around longer than most. He knows what he is doing. Stiller makes fine receivers, Kelblys make fine receivers, Pierce and Farley make good ones. I'm shooting a Bat at this time and find it no better than any of the others. It is not as smooth.
 
butchlambert said.
...Kelblys make fine receivers....
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Butch, on this we agree.

I had been considering a Borden for the past few weeks, but the Kelbly Panda is the favorite action for guys in F-Open and F/TR. So I decided to follow their lead, and yesterday I bought one. Now all I have to do is sit back and wait 15 weeks.

By then Shurley Brothers (yeah, they're from TEXAS) will have my stock finished. So a new toy is in the works and I can move on.

Joe
 
I just got a difiance deviant and they recommended that I not cerakote it. Because of the tight tolerances it could make it stiff. They recomended that I melonite it instead. I should have it back from my smith in the next few weeks.

Scott
 
Did shurley bros move? thought they were from Arkansas. Also I hope pierce is up to par, just ordered an action from em
 
zfastmalibu said:

1. The lug abutments and the bolt handle primary extraction ramp are the correct helix and are precisely aligned together.

2. The bolts are designed for correct ignition and pin alignment and wear internally.

3. They are timed precisely. As close to perfect handoff as there is.

4. The "bumps" give a super tight bolt in the closed position without unduly close tolerances in the open position.

5. Jim Borden stands behind his work. If it isn't right, he makes it right.


If I may add,

The Borden is the only action that you can get an even hand off (no cock on close) and still maintain enough pin fall .250 ish without major modification. All my actions have an even hand off with at least .245" pin fall, the Borden is the only action I dont have to work on, it comes that way. Bordens only cock the firing pin as much as it falls. Check your action, does it continue to cock after the trigger resets? Why? As noted above the closing cams match the lug angles. This makes closing smoother and easier, it also prevents a burr from forming and eventually a gall compromising lug contact. His bolts are ground, not turned. He also has his heat treat correct. Borden and Bat are the only 2 that I have not had a warped bolt on yet. Lug contact, I have seen a lot of new customs with poor lug contact. Firing pin guidance like no other. Very smooth due to the hardness.

Most actions are shiny and expensive leading guys to think its a Chevy Ford thing. Its not, there's big differences out there. Most customs are barely a step up from a Remington, some are worse. Its all in the details.
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Wow Alex,
That's an in depth review. So tell me, have you had the opportunity to work on a Panda action? What is your experience/opinion of the ones you have seen? The pros and cons please?

Thank you.

Joe
 
"what do you mean when you say "timing"?

"Timing" at a couple of key locations is what separates the true Custom(s) from the rest of the so called clones.
A tighter fitting bolt to receiver is not the cure all!

As previously mentioned-
Do Not Assume that your custom is as right as the mail....at arms length.
Indicating tells a different tale.
 
Dans40X said:
"what do you mean when you say "timing"?

"Timing" at a couple of key locations is what separates the true Custom(s) from the rest of the so called clones.
A tighter fitting bolt to receiver is not the cure all!

As previously mentioned-
Do Not Assume that your custom is as right as the mail....at arms length.
Indicating tells a different tale.
Click to expand...

Dans40X,
I may be the village idiot, but I'm not sure there is an answer in that reply. If you do know, could you be more specific?

Thanks,

Joe
 
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