Dave Kiff

[jkohler]

led slinger I think you have missed the point of what preacher was saying. he taking about checking the reamer for proper dimensions before you cut a chamber with it.

 

[Eddie Harren]

"I have never bought GO and NO GO gauges for a reamer because they won't tell you bullet seating depth."

I'm tellin' ya', this place is better'n the funny papers.

 

[shortgrass]

"I have never bought GO and NO GO gauges for a reamer because they won't tell you bullet seating depth."

I'm tellin' ya', this place is better'n the funny papers.

You are so right, Eddie! Might be good to have that GO gauge, though.

 

[LHSmith]

Dummy rounds are also the best way for a smith to set your headspace. So I also supply him with empty sized brass.

I've never bought GO and NO GO gauges for a reamer because they won't tell you bullet seating depth. Always supply dummy rounds.

I know some smiths who won't even chamber a rifle for you if you don't supply multiple dummy rounds.

You give a good smith the right tools to do the job, he'll have a lot better chance of doing the job right.

IMHO this is terrible advice. The GO/ No Go gauges are the "standard" ........ precision machined parts that absolutely verifies the reamer produced the desired chamber that is safe. A "machinist" who engages in such a practice is NOT a gunsmith in any sense of the word.
You should expect more PM's from "real" smiths.

 

[Eddie Harren]

Mr. Slinger, I chose what seemed to me, to be the most polite way to contact you. If I came across as rude, I apologize.

I was told, "Never argue with a Jackass in public. Onlookers can't tell which one is the Jackass."

 

[Erik Cortina]

Dummy rounds are also the best way for a smith to set your headspace. So I also supply him with empty sized brass.

I've never bought GO and NO GO gauges for a reamer because they won't tell you bullet seating depth. Always supply dummy rounds.

I know some smiths who won't even chamber a rifle for you if you don't supply multiple dummy rounds.

You give a good smith the right tools to do the job, he'll have a lot better chance of doing the job right.

IMHO this is terrible advice. The GO/ No Go gauges are the "standard" ........ precision machined parts that absolutely verifies the reamer produced the desired chamber that is safe. A "machinist" who engages in such a practice is NOT a gunsmith in any sense of the word.
You should expect more PM's from "real" smiths.

That's your "opinion" and you can do your job however you want.

I've had nothing but outstanding accuracy results from my smith. You can give him go/no go gauges if you want, but there's no advantage in it. For folks who are building common SAAMI spec cardtridges and plan on using factory ammo, that's a different story. Insult him all you want, but he's probably built more tack driving rifles than you've even laid eyes upon.

My gunsmith set up ALL of the barrel making equipment for the new X-Caliber barrel manufacturer and trained all the machinsts how to properly use the machines AND how to properly hand lap the bores. How about you look up reviews on X-caliber customer barrel tolerances and finishes, then bad mouth him some more if you like. We got feedback from a 1K BR competitor shooting a 2.75" 10 shot group while practicing with the barrel from the machines he set up. He's been a machinist for about 40 years or more now...I think he knows what he's doing

Machinists own gauges to use as a standard, like joe blocks, pin gauges, etc. Chamber gauges serves the same purpose for chambers. Using brass as a gauge would be the same as calibrating your mic's on 1" extruded aluminum.

 

[shortgrass]

Ledd Slinger, you've convinced me to view any of your future posts as pure gibberish. You're the reason the web is known as "The Mis-Information Super Hi-Way!". (the beginning of June I'll have 41yrs. experience as a "job shop" machinist. I, also, have a diploma from MCC [Troy, N.C.] 2yr gunsmithing program [grad. '93, I've installed countless barrels since then]. I had a part time job while I went to school in the day,,,,, guess where, in a machine shop!)

 

[LHSmith]

"Red flag" = When someone touts the "brilliant" work of their smith and the smith's achievements....and the smith remains anonymous.

 

[boltman223]

Dummy rounds are also the best way for a smith to set your headspace. So I also supply him with empty sized brass.

I've never bought GO and NO GO gauges for a reamer because they won't tell you bullet seating depth. Always supply dummy rounds.

I know some smiths who won't even chamber a rifle for you if you don't supply multiple dummy rounds.

You give a good smith the right tools to do the job, he'll have a lot better chance of doing the job right.

IMHO this is terrible advice. The GO/ No Go gauges are the "standard" ........ precision machined parts that absolutely verifies the reamer produced the desired chamber that is safe. A "machinist" who engages in such a practice is NOT a gunsmith in any sense of the word.
You should expect more PM's from "real" smiths.

That's your "opinion" and you can do your job however you want.

I've had nothing but outstanding accuracy results from my smith. You can give him go/no go gauges if you want, but there's no advantage in it. For folks who are building common SAAMI spec cardtridges and plan on using factory ammo, that's a different story. Insult him all you want, but he's probably built more tack driving rifles than you've even laid eyes upon.

My gunsmith set up ALL of the barrel making equipment for the new X-Caliber barrel manufacturer and trained all the machinsts how to properly use the machines AND how to properly hand lap the bores. How about you look up reviews on X-caliber customer barrel tolerances and finishes, then bad mouth him some more if you like. We got feedback from a 1K BR competitor shooting a 2.75" 10 shot group while practicing with the barrel from the machines he set up. He's been a machinist for about 40 years or more now...I think he knows what he's doing

Machinists own gauges to use as a standard, like joe blocks, pin gauges, etc. Chamber gauges serves the same purpose for chambers. Using brass as a gauge would be the same as calibrating your mic's on 1" extruded aluminum.

Ledd Slinger, you've convinced me to view any of your future posts as pure gibberish. You're the reason the web is known as "The Mis-Information Super Hi-Way!". (the beginning of June I'll have 41yrs. experience as a "job shop" machinist. I, also, have a diploma from MCC [Troy, N.C.] 2yr gunsmithing program [grad. '93, I've installed countless barrels since then]. I had a part time job while I went to school in the day,,,,, guess where, in a machine shop!)

Man! If you guys can't tell the chamber is too small when you put a piece of brass in and the bolt doesn't close, you need more practice

 

[Eddie Harren]

Boltman, that is not the sole issue being discussed here. There are numerous possible reasons for a bolt not to close on a piece of brass but only one reason for it not to close on the proper headspace gauge, assuming the chamber is clean and free of debris.

 

[boltman223]

You just have to be smarter than the brass 8)

 

[Eddie Harren]

The discussion was referring to using brass to set headspace, in lieu of a go gauge.

 

[Rustystud]

The last time I checked Go and No Go gauges were the SAAMI and CIP standard for checking headspace. They only measure from the datum line(shoulder, rim, belt) to the case head. Headspace gauges are not used to check neck diameters, lengths, or bullet seating depths. Head space gauges to meet SAAMI and CIP specs must be made of steel.

Measuring headspace with anything other than steel gauges will one day will get you in trouble(physically, mechanically, and/or financially). It could also cost you your freedom due to negligent act causing harm or loss of life.

I consider myself an average or better rifle builder. I always confirm headspace with a set of steel Go and No Go gauges. I use steel pin gauges to measure chamber neck diameters. I use either a Sinclair or Stoney Point bullet seating depth gauge to measure chamber seating depth.

After I have established correct headspace, determined chamber neck diameters, and base seating depths I sometimes will take two Virgin un primed and unloaded cases and debur the neck. I will insert a Go gauge in the chamber and measure from the head end to a reference point on the barrel tenon. Then I insert both pieces of virgin brass into the chamber and check the measurements from the case head to the same point I used with the Go Gauge. The measurements should be the same. I then seat the selected bullet in one of the virgin cases. I measure the neck to insure it will fit uninterrupted in the chamber. I insert the Unfired virgin piece of brass(with bullet seated in it) into the chamber. I then measure the case head to the same reference point used earlier. If the case is protruding out further than the unfired case this would lead me to believe the bullet was seating on the rifling without any and free bore. I often use a throating reamer to open up throats to the desired depth.

The difference is that the chamber has been checked and verified with a Go and No Go gauge first.

When ordering a reamer from any reamer maker it always is a good idea to send an unloaded round with the bullet seated to your chosen depth. This gives the reamer maker a 3D model to take his measurements from. If is it a SAAMI/CIP spec cartridge then you can use commercially available Go and No Go Gauges. If it is a "Wild Cat" cartridge then you would have a set of custom Go and No Go gauges made.

Nat Lambeth

 

[Ledd Slinger]

Well this debate is pointless I suppose. I'll help you fellas out with keeping the road straight and narrow by deleting all my posts.

 

[savagedasher]

My wildcats are not SAAMI.

Most folks have a rifle chambered then fool around with their dies to get the right headspace where it is safe and accurate. I provide sized brass so the chamber is fitted to conform exactly how my brass is set from the sizing die. I get my rifle back, quick check on headspace, it's always right, load the test ammo, off to the range I go. Never have to worry about changing the headspace on my FL sizers.

Should this method be used by inexperienced handloaders or people using factory ammo? No, I would not recommend it at all. If you are well versed in making your own ammo safely by ensuring the proper headspacing is used, there is no danger with my method.

How far does a Dasher blow the shoulder forward during fire-forming? And that's a practice you all think is safe but my method of chambering a barrel is not? However, forming Dasher brass CAN be made a safe operation IF you know what you're doing right? Same with how I have my barrels chambered. If you know what you're doing when loading your ammo, there's nothing unsafe about it.

My chambers are made to custom fit my brass which eliminates the chance of a sizing die being out of spec and not being able to knock the shoulder back correctly. You always hear guys on hear complaining about rounds chambering tight with bolts closing hard or sizing dies not knocking the shoulder back far enough wondering what the heck is going on. You'll never hear that complaint from me...

Your BAD ;D I have a dasher that I have chambered another .030 deeper. Trying it because of the powder I use. I now have no crunch and a slight loss of speed. Larry

 

[Ledd Slinger]

Oh don't do that Larry!!! That's against the rules! LOL ;D

 

[Eddie Harren]

"First thing to do when you find yourself in a hole, is to stop digging." Or, turn tail and run.

 

[savagedasher]

Oh don't do that Larry!!! That's against the rules! LOL ;D

Not mine and apparently not yours. : : : : Larry

 

[Ledd Slinger]

I can see cleary from where I'm at Mr. Harren. Maybe youre digging a hole Eddie? I'll bite and humor you a little further if thats what you fancy. Im just laying in bed overseas after a hard days work with nothing better to do...
My rifles all shoot with excellent accuracy. How is that being in a hole? The only thing I ever get mad about with my rifles is that I can't always shoot quite as good as the rifle can. You have no argument that stands against me or proves me wrong. There are no laws that prevent me from chambering with brass. There is no danger I am putting myself in. So tell me Eddie, how is it that my rifles shooting accurately and chambering rounds perfectly is wrong? Please, I'd love to know

 

[Ledd Slinger]

I know most of us will never agree on this, but if anything, I've succeeded in taking the heat off of a great machinist in our industry...Dave Kiff

What was this topic started for again??? Lol ;D