Dan Cooper asked to resign

[chino1969]

JRS, it's only because it works. Is S&W now not a big contributor to the sport? Can we now not buy hi-cap Ruger brand magazines? Is Colt now not responding to the civilian market with new models and options?

We can all vote - with our feet and with our dollars.

Actions have consequences. Sometimes there is collateral damage. But the principles are worth fighting for in spite of the collateral damage.

At least in my opinion.

While I agree with everything you said, where do Dan Cooper's rights fit in?

Chino69

 

[usngunner]

While I agree with everything you said, where do Dan Cooper's rights fit in?

Chino69

What rights of Mr. Cooper's were impinged upon?

Mr Cooper voiced his opinion and said what he wanted to say. In a nationally published interview no less. I do not get that kind of podium. Most folks don't, especially shooters.

The Illinois State Rifle Association is lucky to get any coverage. Even when several thousand of us show up to voice a position.

But then along comes a gun Manufacturer that supports Obama and his looney toon socialist platform and they slap him on the front page. A converted Republican no less!

Why do you suppose they did that?

So, after reading his position, his customer base who found the position un-palatable exercised their personal rights.

Their right to vote with their wallets. I.E. we're done buying or supporting those folks, especially those folks that make their living from us, that support politicians who stated goal is to impinge on our rights as shooters and gun owners. And the liberals will try to impinge them the first chance they get. Of that there can be no doubt.

So, His board board of directors looked at the consequence from that interview. Judged the reactions from the folks that pay their salaries, and did what they thought was best for the business.

That's the way this works.

There is no right to immunity from the consequences of your actions or words.

There is no right to a job no matter what you might say or do.

And most importantly of all.

There is no right that says customers have to spend money at your business.

As I said before, it's best to not publicly irritate those that provides for your lively hood.

 

[Posit]

I don't know that he has a right to support and contribute to the candidate of his choice without "economic and political retrtibution".

I'm certainly not aware that anyone has suggested any of his rights have been or should be violated. Certainly he has the right to support and vote for the candidate of his choice; I'm not aware that anyone has said otherwise. I'm also unaware there has been any mention of political retribution,don't even know how that would be defined in this case). However, if he offends his customer base, as a businessman, he can expect his business to suffer - simple fact of business. Being in the business of manufacturing firearms, I'm sure he is aware his customer base is a very conservative lot, and very sensitive to any candidate perceived as pro gun control. If he likes Obama's social agenda, fine... votes for him, fine... but the interview was a "dumb thing".

I'm a little cynical about the article stating his BOD has asked for his resignation... good fire fighting, but I wonder if that's all it is. I don't know how much of the company he owns, etc., so wonder if the announcement was just a PR move designed to calm the raging mob of irate gun guys. Has anyone heard that he did tender his resignation, or anything else relevant??

And, for whatever its worth, I do own a Cooper, am a member of the NRA and will vote for the candidate of my choice. I would venture to guess these things also apply to Mr. Cooper,for whatever that's worth).

 

[chino1969]

Dan Cooper's rights.

You had to have seen some of the posts on BR Central; it amounted to a lynch mob wanted to hang Dan Cooper. The argument quickly degraded to name calling, etc. I won't digress into another heated argument as we all have opinions around this issue and I was just as bad as some of the others.

Dan Cooper has a right, as an American citizen, to support the candidate of his choice. Forget that it is Dan Cooper, let's call him Wally Billings. Nobody would have any problem with Wally supporting or contributing to Obama. If Wally was a barber, butcher, or plumber, his business would likely not suffer due to his political affiliaton. Most reasonable people would still get their hair cut, buy their meat, or get their plumbing needs taken care of by Wally because he does good work.

Dan Cooper, because he is the founder of a rifle company, is not afforded the same fair play that Wally would be afforded. Gun owners don't agree with his position and have no problem trying to put the man out of business. My point is that in tough economic times and uncertainty, it's easy for people to form a mob mentality. I don't feel the man's actions warrants the reprecussions or treatment he has received. He's obviously a man of some integrity as he stepped down voluntarily rather than bring economic retribution to those who work for his company. I wonder how many of the people calling for his head would be reciprocal in their actions if their position would be detrimental to their political views and they had a choice to make?

Chino69

 

[chino1969]

Good question, Chino.

For me, Mr. Cooper's rights blend perfectly with BHO's right to revise his position on 2nd amendment freedoms, never mind his voting record on those issues and his new-found patriotism. Mr. Cooper certainly has the right to contribute to BHO's campaign and by doing so, help convince as many people as he can that BHO's past is no reflection of how he'll act in the future - after all, that's Mr. Cooper's story, too.

Mr. Cooper sure went a long way out of his way to alienate the people his success depends on - not only contributing to a patently anti-gun candidate, but commenting about it in a national newspaper while kicking the war effort and the far right. As ill-considered as that may have been, that's his right.

It's hard to protect someone from themselves. On the other hand, he may find new fame and success on the left... who knows?

You were able to present your case in a mature and professional manner. Your points are valid and noted.

While we are on the subject; I fear an Obama administration. There are too many questions and alliances in this guy's past to give me a warm comfy.

Here's something to consider. In order to obtain a top secret nuclear security clearance, one has to have had a past with no drug useage. How is Obama going to get around that one since he wrote about using cocaine in his book as well as speaking engagements with high school students?

Chino69

 

[Spook]

If Obama isnt enough to scare you, just think of Obama,Biden,Pelosi,Reed,Kennedy,Schumer,Feinstein.....The list goes on.
If you dont believe a democrat majority will seriously effect the future of the 2nd amendment as we know it today,particularly post Heller, youve had your head where the sun dont shine!
To think that a firearms manufacturer doesnt understand that is beyond belief....at the very least,Dans gotta go and his controlling interest must be released before I'd buy Cooper. The man has either no brain or no shame.

 

[JRS]

Chino69,
As long as he hasn't been convicted of a felony, he has no problem getting his red badge. STP was sued a few years ago for denying a clearance based on prior drug use. It cost them dearly.

 

[JRS]

Has anyone considered McCain might be our next president? If he is, how do you compensate Dan Cooper and their employees for the damage caused to them? If they are no longer in business, are you going to offer jobs to the employees you helped to send to the unemployment office? Give money to Dan to restart his company? And if Obama is elected and we lose no gun rights how many are going to publicly apologize to Dan and his employees? Wouldn't it behoove everyone to wait for the outcome before convicting Dan and sending he and his employees to the gallows? Has anyone seen a statement from the NRA condemning Dan Cooper? Of course not. We need to give this a chance to play out and wait for the results. No one knows that our gun rights will be affected in any way.

 

[Mudcat]

Not sure why I would need to consider whether or not McCain got elected or if Obomber does and he does nothing. The simple fact of the matter is that I choose to not financially support Cooper because of what Dan did. Thats my right, period. Same way that folks that dont like my politics, beliefs, etc can choose to avoid doing biz with me. I dont have a right to their biz, nor do I expect them to patronize me if they dont wish to, for any reason. Thats their right. Aint America great!? Well, at least for now, anyhow.

John

 

[MATSUBOB]

Has anyone considered McCain might be our next president? If he is, how do you compensate Dan Cooper and their employees for the damage caused to them? If they are no longer in business, are you going to offer jobs to the employees you helped to send to the unemployment office? Give money to Dan to restart his company? And if Obama is elected and we lose no gun rights how many are going to publicly apologize to Dan and his employees? Wouldn't it behoove everyone to wait for the outcome before convicting Dan and sending he and his employees to the gallows? Has anyone seen a statement from the NRA condemning Dan Cooper? Of course not. We need to give this a chance to play out and wait for the results. No one knows that our gun rights will be affected in any way.

The rest of us don't need to stand up for Cooper, you are doing that above and beyond.

 

[tomj44]

Lets not start on unions Nate. Cops,Firemen and Teachers all belong to unions. I guess these people are all bad too. You sound like a grumpy old man Nate.

Tom

 

[MATSUBOB]

Lets not start on unions Nate. Cops,Firemen and Teachers all belong to unions. I guess these people are all bad too. You sound like a grumpy old man Nate.

Tom

I agree. We don't need to single out a group of people to make a point. There are a lot of union workers that are shooters/hunters and NRA members.

 

[SlowpokeRodriguez]

Not sure why I would need to consider whether or not McCain got elected or if Obomber does and he does nothing. The simple fact of the matter is that I choose to not financially support Cooper because of what Dan did. Thats my right, period. Same way that folks that dont like my politics, beliefs, etc can choose to avoid doing biz with me. I dont have a right to their biz, nor do I expect them to patronize me if they dont wish to, for any reason. Thats their right. Aint America great!? Well, at least for now, anyhow.

John

[Post edited by Moderator because of potentially libelous language.]

I spend quite a bit on this sport and although [Cooper's] rifles are not quite my cup of tea I would buy one IF HE WAS NO LONGER ASSOCIATED WITH THE COMPANY in any way, shape. form or fashion. I also informed Cooper Rifles of that---this includes him being a part owner as well.

Remember---I support those who support us!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[JRS]

Maybe the next step should be to encourage all Democrats to boycott and refuse to purchase from vendors supporting McCain. Why try to hurt a businessman who has done nothing to hurt you. It appears to be nothing more than Dan's choice to vote Democrat rather than Republican. There are numerous vendors supporting Obama that we purchase from every day. We all rely heavily on the NRA to help us with our gun rights. Try to get them to back you up on this decision. I hope this mess won't cause Dan and others reading these posts to abandon the shooting sports and walk away from the NRA. You would have a legitimate reason to complain then, but only yourselves to blame.

 

[Posit]

JRS - Its the feeling of disloyalty. Cooper built a successful business selling guns to guys on this and other similar forum. Then supports an antigun candidate. His logic ecapes me, but doesn't matter.

You're trying too hard to be "fair" - whatever that is. You're telling me that I should continue to patronize a business which has offended me. Ain't gonna happen.

 

[JRS]

Posit,
I am not trying to get you to patronize Cooper. My hope was for people to do the right and honorable thing. You don't have to purchase from Cooper, nor should anyone try to persuade others to alienate this company. I would be willing to bet most of the ones involved in this have never purchased a new Cooper rifle. This is an American company manufacturing right here in our country using American employees, and so many are willing to try their best to force them out of business. The smart move on their part right now would be to change the name of the company and have the guns manufactured in China. Haven't we lost enough American companies already?

 

[MATSUBOB]

Posit:

There is no use trying to reason with this guy. He is obviously on some kind of a liberal crusade to save the oppressed. Someone said" if you wrestle with a pig you get just get dirty and the pig loves it".

 

[JRS]

MATSUBOB- I don't recall addressing my post to you. It was posted to Posit.

Take your prozak and relax.

 

[MATSUBOB]

JRS: This issue is dead. I would hope the moderator removes it from the forum

 

[birddog]

I just purchased a brand new Cooper Rifle. Ordered it back in April and it came in September. I was wonderfully happy with it. You can find my posts on this forum and another about how happy I was to finally get it.

However, business and politics do not mix.

I'm in the process of becoming a life member of the NRA,been a member since the 80s and now on a payment plan to become a life member). I listen to what the NRA tells me about candidates and I've read the Illinois State Rifle Association open letter to Sportsmen. Anybody who is half listening to these groups knows which candidate is best for gun owners. I've already voted for McCain. How a candidate stands on 2nd Amendment issues is a primary factor in how I vote.

I wish Dan Cooper had kept his mouth shut and kept is personal political views private. I'd still be a happy Cooper owner if that were the case. Unfortuneately, he chose to publicize his views, in essence, endorsing Obama.

I don't often get the chance to vote with my dollars, but by making his views public, I now can. Had this happened before I purchased my rifle, I would have chosen a different manufacturer.

As long as Dan Cooper has any financial stake in Cooper Arms of Montana, I'll never buy another Cooper again. That is painful to say as I really like their product and was looking forward to owning another.

I feel for his employees, but that is not the issue here. The issue is that he has crossed his personal politics into his business and that was irresponsible on his part. His business and his employees will suffer as any business does when a CEO makes a major mistake.

Birddog