Wondering if the OP uses the redding neck lube that gets applied by the small ceramic balls? Could one have remained stuck on the outside then got caught in the seating die and then gouged the following round as a bullet was seated? Seen photos of a barrel that looks as though one was caught in there and fired over the top of a few times. Talk about a crater!
Damaged Cartridge........What's up?
- Thread starter Mozella
- Start date
Thanks Larry, but let me assure you I check my cases quite well, especially the ones I use in competiton. However, assuming I was lazy about prepping my special competition ammo (which I am not), don't you think that I would have detected a cracked neck after the fact while examining the cartridge in question and starting this thread, especially under high magnification? I assure you the case is NOT cracked in spite of what you think you see in the photograph.
I'll try to address some of the other numerous questions/guesses all at once.
The damage was not caused by firing; notice the bullet still in the case and the primer is intact.
Eliminate a ball type expander associated with sizing dies. I don't even own one. I also don't own any ceramic balls or steel BBs.
These special competition rounds were all loaded at the same time. I examine each piece of sized and cleaned brass as it rotates in the annealing pan, paying particular attention to the condition of the neck. A distorted case would surely have been seen.
The next step is to prime the cases, insert a final uniforming mandrel in the neck (not a ball type expanding mandrel) and I again handle them individually as I pour in the carefully weighed powder charge; another step which this dented case is very unlikely to pass. The charged cases get put into a loading block and then are examined under magnification with a strong light to check the charges. A dented case is likely to be detected during this step as well.
Next is bullet seating requiring individual handling twice, once as the case is put into the press and again when the cartridge is put into the storage box; two more chances to see/feel the dent. Plus, the way the case is dented, it would be VERY difficult to seat a bullet past the dent. I would have noticed that extra seating force.
I believe it is not possible for the case to be damaged this way during any of the above processes and highly unlikely for it to be undetected during these several steps before it got into the storage box.
So, after giving it additional thought, I have to believe the dent occured during chambering and I highly suspect a loose primer. Or it could have been something else, but from where? I re-examined the fired cases once again yesterday and each has a spent primer. The Lapua cases are relatively new with tight primer pockets and the load was far from "hot".
Bottom line: I'm chalking this up to one of life's mysteries and unless it happens again, I'm prepared to stop worrying about it. However, I'm afraid I've started a thread with a life of it's own.
Is it worth checking the lug cutout in your action to see if the culprit is still lurking there?
Where did it land?
As we say around here, "Done done it", but thanks for the suggestion. Based on your post I removed the bolt and took another real close look at it to be sure it was OK since most bolts have a ball or two and other components. While it's unlikely something could fall off and/or come apart, I suppose it's possible. Anyhow, the bolt assembly is intact, the action and magazine blocking assembly aren't hiding anything.
On the soft rag several inches below my rifle where all the spent cases go. But if you're thinking it was damaged at that time, remember that the reason I didn't fire that particular cartridge was because it wouldn't chamber. When it came back out of the action it was already damaged.
My thoughts it was a foreign object in either the sizing die or the seating die. You said the bolt wouldn't close but a bolt closing on a case doesn't create the oomph necessary to dent a case that badly. Not even if you stand on the bolt handle. If you examine your dies you might find evidence of an object being in there at some point. Use a bore scope.
That is just what I was getting at. With my luck if I drop a hammer it will be bent or broken when I pick it up. If you saw the damage before tossing the cartridge, that answers that.
I don't think he could have missed it when using the expander mandrel in the case before loading it. I know I watch the mandrel enter every case too make sure it doesn't hit on case mouth. Then I trim and chamfer. Then I lube every neck before I load. Matt
senderoll
Gold $$ Contributor
Had the same kind of dent in one of my reloaded 223 roads. It also absolutely happened on chambering the round. I removed the bolt and examined the bore and saw no obstruction. Tried to chamber another and it did it also. The secone case had a piece of corn cob media stuck in the same area as the first damaged case. I am thinking a piece medie was somehow left in case when loading. Upon firing, it somehow stayed and fell back into the neck of chamber? Still has me wondering and it.has never happened again.
I just took a case with a small 3/16 dull punch and tryed to dent a case in the area showed . My pressure gauge only works to 150 psi max . It flaten the area but never dented it to wher it folded in. Then took a Remington action and took some grease to hold a number 9 lead shot and slamed the bolt as hard as I could and never got the bolt close to cam over.. So much fun I think I might stop .
Larry
I really have no idea how it could happen, except to say that I recently had my first bullet pull out from loose neck tension while foreforming. Anyways, I would in no way close my bolt with a single grain of RE-15 in the shoulder area. I use a Wilson seater die and there's no way again I could have something in there without noticing it with the typical pressure needed, not to mention the die wouldn't set down on the base if something was there. That leaves me with only one remaining place for such pressure to occure. The sizing die. I use an RCBS Rock Chucker, which is made to deal with a decent amount of pressure.
I had something similar happen once,,, I had been using a load where I was jamming the bullet with out a lot of neck tension, I was deer hunting and saw a deer at the edge of a field, and the deer wandered into the woods.
I knew I had a problem so I held the rifle with the muzzle straight up in hopes of the powder remaining in the case if the bullet was stuck. Sure enough the bullet stuck and a little powder jostled into the action. I thought I had it all clean.
A week later after a match I was looking at my brass and on about the 30th shell out of 50 I found a rectangle indentation in the same area you have the dent.. the next 20 cases the dent slowly went away but was hardly seen on the last case.
I believe that it was one kernal of powder that got in there and by firing repeatedly it had crushed the powder after a while. because the dent got shallower and more square.
I then cleaned the chamber area real well and took the rifle apart and found a few more kernals of powder in the bolt lug area.
The next time the brass was fired the dents were gone.
The worst dent was nothing like your's though! but in the same area.
Until you find the actual culprit you have created a virus thread.... so make something up if you have to to end it.LOL
I knew I had a problem so I held the rifle with the muzzle straight up in hopes of the powder remaining in the case if the bullet was stuck. Sure enough the bullet stuck and a little powder jostled into the action. I thought I had it all clean.
A week later after a match I was looking at my brass and on about the 30th shell out of 50 I found a rectangle indentation in the same area you have the dent.. the next 20 cases the dent slowly went away but was hardly seen on the last case.
I believe that it was one kernal of powder that got in there and by firing repeatedly it had crushed the powder after a while. because the dent got shallower and more square.
I then cleaned the chamber area real well and took the rifle apart and found a few more kernals of powder in the bolt lug area.
The next time the brass was fired the dents were gone.
The worst dent was nothing like your's though! but in the same area.
Until you find the actual culprit you have created a virus thread.... so make something up if you have to to end it.LOL
Yeah, I noticed. I figured people would be following politics so closely they wouldn't have any extra time for stuff like this thread. This election cycle is a TV programming executives nightmare. It has all the excitement and intrigue of a mystery drama, a survival show, a soap opera, a prize show, a documentary, a talent show, and a re-run of the Animal House food fight all rolled into one. Writers (except those writing nasty debate questions), actors, directors, and producers are going to starve this year. All the excitement one could possibly need is in the political arena at the moment.
As far as ending the thread, I was thinking I could say I found a piece of a Trump button in there, but then I thought I should claim it was part of Hillary's third, secret Blackberry device which she thought had been destroyed.
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