CZ 17 Ackley Hornet

[Mark M.]

Had a nice score today, picked up a CZ 527 American rebarreled with a stainless in 17 Ackley Hornet

 

[shoot4fun]

You're going to love it!
I really need to get mine out of the back of the safe and go shooting.

 

[Mark M.]

Question, if you guys where me, just starting out, i haven't bought bought dies or anything yet for this Ackley hornet, would you
rechamber to the 17 HH or keep it Ackley hornet? I know they're close in performance.
I just didn't know if there was any advantage one over the other at this point.
Was thinking, either way, I would have the barrel threaded for a suppressor.

 

[Mark M.]

I just watched a video that says you can shoot the 17 HH in a 17 Ackley chamber,....your thoughts?

 

[shoot4fun]

I just watched a video that says you can shoot the 17 HH in a 17 Ackley chamber,....your thoughts?

While I understand it is possible to fire 17HH in a 17 AH chamber the results are less than desirable.
The HH has a 25˚ shoulder while the AH is 30˚.(edited from 40)
The 17HH shoulder blows forward, as the 17HH is longer.
The 17HH necks will be very short after firing in the 17AH chamber and that will cause issues with carbon rings in very short order.
BTW, 17AH performance is quite a bit better overall.

 

[BradY]

17HH brass forms short in a 17AH chamber. Yes it can work. Will need to watch out for carbon ring.

Since we lack access to any decent 17AH powder here all I can use is either AR2205 (out of stock at the moment but more soon apparently) or AR2207 which is H4198.

I form with a proper case forming die to neck down, then fl size with a FL die, anneal, then load 10gr H4198 with a 20 gr vmax and shoot. The annealing is very important. Haven’t lost a case yet with annealing. Plan to re anneal every 3rd or 4th firing.

Full power load looks to be around 12.3gr powder. Haven’t chronyed yet as I’m still working on seating depth. I also have 200 nosler varmageddons here to try as well.

If I had access to them I would use either AA1680 or CFE BLK. They will give you better velocity.

 

[shoot4fun]

Hodgdon LilGun or AA1680 are the two best powders I found. I found 1680 at a very reasonable price (a while back) in and 8# keg and have enough to last a lifetime.

 

[BradY]

I have heard a lot of people warn against lol gun as it peaks out real quick. Have seen online reports of blowing primers and cases. Never tried as I can’t get it. Have thought about w296 as well but same thing it’s maybe a bit fast and might peak out.

 

[shoot4fun]

I have heard a lot of people warn against lol gun as it peaks out real quick. Have seen online reports of blowing primers and cases. Never tried as I can’t get it. Have thought about w296 as well but same thing it’s maybe a bit fast and might peak out.

I'll go back in my chronogaph files and look at data for both powders.
I will say I never saw any primer of brass problems with the Lil Gun and I shot the powder in a wide varying temperature and humidity range.

 

[Ackman]

Question, if you guys where me, just starting out, i haven't bought bought dies or anything yet for this Ackley hornet, would you
rechamber to the 17 HH or keep it Ackley hornet? I know they're close in performance.
I just didn't know if there was any advantage one over the other at this point.
Was thinking, either way, I would have the barrel threaded for a suppressor.

Since it's an AI Hornet, leave it that way. I've been shooting one since about '93 and it's a favorite. Started with a 20"TC carbine (which is one of the best window/truck guns you could ever want) and liked it enough to have Wessinger rebarrel a Ruger 77/22Hornet into 17AH, 20"also. They both shoot really well. Don't screw around changing yours to HH, just use as it is and enjoy. Fireforming loads are every bit as accurate as with formed cases. One thing....factory hornet brass is undersized at the web, so you may see a slight bulge with formed brass, dependiing on your chamber.. And the body die won't touch it. The T/C has a custom barrel and fired cases have that very small bullge....no big deal and I don't even worry about it. The Wessinger chamber was done with a sligthly tighter reamer and there's no bulge. Your chamber chamber may/may not have the slightly tighter chamber, but either way it's nothing to worry about. Don't know why all that Hornet brass is a.wee bit undersize, it just is. At least mine is, but it's also from the early '90s. Started shooting 20 and 23gr bullets with 680 powder, went to 1680. Same thing. With VV130 or 133 don't remember which, got another 200fps. Primers are Rem 7-1/2. That T/C goes with me all the time. Again, don't bother changing to HH, it would be a waste of money for no gain..

 

[Mark M.]

Since it's an AI Hornet, leave it that way. I've been shooting one since about '93 and it's a favorite. Started with a 20"TC carbine (which is one of the best window/truck guns you could ever want) and liked it enough to have Wessinger rebarrel a Ruger 77/22M into 17AH, 20"also. They both shoot really well. Don't screw around changing yours to HH, just use as it is and enjoy. Fireforming loads are every bit as accurate as with formed cases. One thing....factory hornet brass is undersized at the web, so you may see a slight bulge with formed brass, dependiing on your chamber.. And the body die won't touch it. The T/C has a custom barrel and fired cases have that very small bullge....no big deal and I don't even worry about it. The Wessinger chamber was done with a sligthly tighter reamer and there's no bulge. Your chamber chamber may/may not have the slightly tighter chamber, but either way it's nothing to worry about. Don't know why all that Hornet brass is a.wee bit undersize, it just is. At least mine is, but it's also from the early '90s. Started shooting 20 and 23gr bullets with 680 powder, went to 1680. Same thing. With VV130 or 133 don't remember which, got another 200fps. Primers are Rem 7-1/2. That T/C goes with me all the time. Again, don't bother changing to HH, it would be a waste of money for no gain..

I agree, I found some new norma brass i though I would try

 

[17VLD]

Most Ackley chambers are improved to 40 degrees. But the 17 Ackley Hornet is 30 degrees.Be careful when you source your dies as the 17 K Hornet is 33 degrees. I've seen drawings on the net that show both angles as the Ackley version but it is 30. I absolutely love my 17AH, it rivals many rifles and is a Bullberry 15" pistol.
I am glad you found that CZ, they really are nice rifles. One day I plan on building a Ruger#1 into a 17AH or perhaps running into a Cooper 38 that is so chambered. I remember my friend Dan C of Wyoming making a 503 yard shot at a pd at the 2nd annual Saubier shoot with a beautifully stocked Cooper in 17AH with a 20 Vmax, we were all pretty amazed as that really is pushing what this little Hornet can and should do. We normally would never push the Hornet that far but it was a double dog dare. The pd just fell over dead at the shot which really surprised all those watching including Doug Derner who was instrumental in helping design the 17 HH, perhaps that was a little of the inspiration for him. I wish he was still around to ask. Enough rambling, I hope you enjoy your 17AH they are tons of fun.
Matt

 

[Mark M.]

Most Ackley chambers are improved to 40 degrees. But the 17 Ackley Hornet is 30 degrees.Be careful when you source your dies as the 17 K Hornet is 33 degrees. I've seen drawings on the net that show both angles as the Ackley version but it is 30. I absolutely love my 17AH, it rivals many rifles and is a Bullberry 15" pistol.
I am glad you found that CZ, they really are nice rifles. One day I plan on building a Ruger#1 into a 17AH or perhaps running into a Cooper 38 that is so chambered. I remember my friend Dan C of Wyoming making a 503 yard shot at a pd at the 2nd annual Saubier shoot with a beautifully stocked Cooper in 17AH with a 20 Vmax, we were all pretty amazed as that really is pushing what this little Hornet can and should do. We normally would never push the Hornet that far but it was a double dog dare. The pd just fell over dead at the shot which really surprised all those watching including Doug Derner who was instrumental in helping design the 17 HH, perhaps that was a little of the inspiration for him. I wish he was still around to ask. Enough rambling, I hope you enjoy your 17AH they are tons of fun.
Matt

Thank you Matt, thanks for taking the time, Blessings

 

[L.Sherm]

I would keep the Ackley hornet. I also wouldn't worry about case length if you try HH ammo I heard the same thing when I used 06 brass for a 6.5×06AI about carbon rings, a carbon ring is a carbon ring whether its .010 or .030 long scrub it just like any other. I know some BR guys who shoot brass .025 or more shorter than chamber.
Don't know about Norma brass but from my understanding WW hornet brass used to be the go to for Ackley hornets.

 

[Tommie]

17HH brass is shorter than 17 Hornet Ackley. Since it’s a rimmed case the Hornady could probably be used in a pinch but I wouldn’t make a habit of it.

 

[searcher]

I have heard a lot of people warn against lol gun as it peaks out real quick. Have seen online reports of blowing primers and cases. Never tried as I can’t get it. Have thought about w296 as well but same thing it’s maybe a bit fast and might peak out.

I ran into that issue with 'Lil Gun too. It shot nice groups, but better to run it with the lightest bullets and at a bit lower velocity than with most of the other powders. I didn't run it hot enough to blow a primer, but it was evident that pressure built up noticeably faster. I don't have any experience with CFEBLK as it came out long after I settled on the loads I like, but I intend to try it (when I can get some) on some 15.5 NTX bullets I picked up a while back. The Lil Gun might be perfect for those bullets. Time will tell. I did do a lot of testing with IMR 4227 and H 4198, along with other powders.

I settled on 9.3 grns. of IMR 4227 for shooting 20 V-Max at 3,175 fps, which avg. .300" in my rifle. This is a very slow load, intentionally so, to make the brass last much longer as for only 100-250 yard shots. Just don't need the extra speed for shooting squirrels at this range.

Using 11.5 grns. of H4198 gives me 3,389 FPS and .400" groups.

I use 10.8 grns. H 4198 with the 25 Bergers for 3,136 FPS and .420" groups. (coyote load)

There was a bit of wind running when I did this last test w/o wind flags, so I know they actually group somewhat better.

NOTE that all these bullets were either moly or HBN coated, so I'd back off the powder at least 1/10 grain if running them bare.

 

[shoot4fun]

I ran into that issue with 'Lil Gun too. It shot nice groups, but better to run it with the lightest bullets and at a bit lower velocity than with most of the other powders. I didn't run it hot enough to blow a primer, but it was evident that pressure built up noticeably faster. I don't have any experience with CFEBLK as it came out long after I settled on the loads I like, but I intend to try it (when I can get some) on some 15.5 NTX bullets I picked up a while back. The Lil Gun might be perfect for those bullets. Time will tell. I did do a lot of testing with IMR 4227 and H 4198, along with other powders.

I have never shot any NTX bullets in anything so really don't know how they act as far as pressure.
A lot of the non-toxic bullets (no lead core) tend to peak pressure sooner from previous experience.
I have no evidence or experience but think if you hit pressure early with Lil Gun and lead core bullets then it would really be a problem for the NTX.
Maybe someone can chime in that knows the answer for sure?

 

[searcher]

I have never shot any NTX bullets in anything so really don't know how they act as far as pressure.
A lot of the non-toxic bullets (no lead core) tend to peak pressure sooner from previous experience.
I have no evidence or experience but think if you hit pressure early with Lil Gun and lead core bullets then it would really be a problem for the NTX.
Maybe someone can chime in that knows the answer for sure?

I have always been amazed at the accuracy of that 15.5 NTX in my .17 HMR. It runs out of gas at bout 275-325 yards. Boosting the velocity with the Hornet will be very interesting to see how much more distance can be had with that little pill.

 

[B23]

They aren't the exact same bullet so it's not a true apples to apples comparison but I've shot the 15gr LF 17 WSM rimfire ammo in my 17WSM and the 15.5 in my 17 Hornets and for such a tiny little bullet they're pretty destructive. Haven't shot them nearly as much or as far, in my 17 WSM and Hornet, as I have the 20gr Vmax and I've mostly only shot ground squirrels with those 15's but they flat blowed em up good as well as have been very accurate.

I'm sure those 15 and 15.5 grainers will kill coyotes but for me if I planned to use my 17 Hornet specifically for coyotes or even rock chucks I would dip in to my stash of Hornady 25gr HP's and load those.

 

[Kittitas George]

Just enjoy the 17AH. I shoot an 17 HH, Ruger #1. It's very good on varmints, pretty heavy so no jump and gophers fly.