Cutting Edge 22LR Ammo Is Here

[davidjoe]

^ I know the NRA provides for a 100 yard FClass match for small bore, but I’m not aware of a longer range NRA sanctioned match than 100 yards. It’s true that the 10 ring can be held with lead match rounds.

These machined bullets would appeal where they could separate themselves in points with higher a BC or uniformity, meaning at much longer ranges, in the wind. If the NRA doesn’t even sanction such a match, then the rule about lead wouldn’t apply.

Already, mandating lead bullets in a national rule is precarious for the NRA because the first state, municipality, or even big range like some state-operated ones, that comes along prohibiting their use will cause the NRA to revisit it.

 

[Geno C]

I find it very sad actually, that people would want to restrict advancement.

 

[dgeesaman]

I find it very sad actually, that people would want to restrict advancement.

As a technical guy, of course. I love digging deeper too.

But to grow the sport it can’t be unregulated. When I joined my club i sat down next to some short range benchrest guys. Great group, very helpful, but the weird looking guns and huge investments in components and gear have kept me clearly away from that sport even though I could attend matches with them and receive invaluable coaching.

I’m picking on sr benchrest but really each discipline needs to make the choice.

 

[Geno C]

As a technical guy, of course. I love digging deeper too.

But to grow the sport it can’t be unregulated. When I joined my club i sat down next to some short range benchrest guys. Great group, very helpful, but the weird looking guns and huge investments in components and gear have kept me clearly away from that sport even though I could attend matches with them and receive invaluable coaching.

I’m picking on sr benchrest but really each discipline needs to make the choice.

Those guys most likely don’t have any more, and probably less than prs rifles. And elr rifles.

I never said to run it unregulated. I just think limiting 22lr ammo, that is still 22lr ammo is silly. It’s like limiting heavy gun weight in ELR. Lots of rules I don’t agree with but they are what they are.

 

[JoeMcNeill]

I find this topic and concept very interesting. Since the 22 rimfire is probably the most bought and fired of all cartridges, I have often wondered why it is so restricted to bullet weight and bullet shape!
I understand that money is always the limiting factor but why do we have 17 cal rimfire rounds loaded with higher grade factory bullets and even the 22 magnum. Why not the 22 LR?
I load mostly for the 6 ppc and heaven knows the list of items for it is extensive, so why not the 22 rimfire bench rest rounds?
Very interesting!!

JDM

 

[grauhanen]

I do have results actually. Those just happen to be the only days I took pictures of the chrono, because I was communicating with my bullet maker. I’ve sent a decent number of these bullets down range with quite a few different loads and it can be seen that it finds a node that is stable and speeds stay stable. Now the wild card in all of this is the priming mixture. I have taken a few steps to get as close to perfect batches of brass as I am able and it is almost completely without fliers that are the normal occurrence with rimfire ammo.

As for handloaded 22 ammo not having a history of being better than factory.... there’s a reason it’s already against the rules in some shooting disciplines. I am far from the first to do this. Some figured it was worth the effort years ago and we told they could no longer do if by the FUDDs that didn’t want to put in the time and effort to have the best possible ammunition.

22lr is a funny thing in shooting because it is where quite a few go with the main reason of cutting costs. Once you go against that cost, whether with top of the line ammo like Tenex and Xact, or got to custom bullets and handloading, they feel the need to try and shut it down because it will go against them trying to shoot inexpensively

The fact that handloaded .22LR ammo isn't being used in competition doesn't constitute evidence that it's better than factory .22LR match ammo. That's like saying that an absence of proof is itself proof.

There aren't prohibitions on reloaded centerfire ammo in competition because it's too good. Similarly, if there are prohibitions on reloaded .22LR ammo in competition, it's not because the evidence shows that it would be too good and therefore somehow unfair. There is little or no evidence of superior performance of reloaded .22 rimfire ammo because corroborating information is not available.

The ammo makers can't be held responsible for conspiring against those who wish to reload .22 rimfire ammo. The fact is that reloading .22LR is not nearly as straightforward nor as practical as reloading centerfire. As an example, until recently, it wasn't possible to get unused .22LR casings for reloading. One of the reasons for that is that the reloader can't prime the casings himself. To produce good .22LR ammo, it's not enough to be able to apply the primer, and the current availablility of primed cases doesn't mean that the primer battle is over. This is one of the most closely guarded secrets of match ammo makers. Even when ammo uses a proven technology it may not be enough. Aguila's use of Eley Prime doesn't make Aguila a particularly good ammo.

Reloading rimfire ammo to a quality that equals or improves on .22LR match ammo is more complex than measuring a certain amount of powder into a casing and seating and crimping a bullet in its place. Considering the lack of specialized reloading tools and equipment for .22LR, there can be little wonder that even those simple steps can be a challenge.

Even the best match ammo produced is characterized by inconsistencies including variation in ES, among other things. The match ammo makers spend considerable time and effort, scientific and technological, to ensure that each top tier lot is as consistent as possible and yet they have a devil of a time delivering the results. One lot of Eley Tenex is typically no more than seven or eight cases in number. Yet still it's almost a certainty that perhaps only one of them will shoot well in a particular rifle.

If that sounds like an argument for reloading .22LR, it's not. Reloading superior .22 ammo is a lot easier said than done. The market for the best .22LR ammo is such that if the match ammo makers could produce better ammo they would. If Eley or Lapua were to make an ammo that was significantly better than the best currently available, they would be able to monopolize the .22LR match ammo market and bring in bigger profits.

The problem is that they can't make better ammo, and reloaded .22LR ammo is not (yet, anyway) a practical alternative. It's a false assumption to argue that if reloaded centerfire ammo can be better than factory ammo, then reloaded rimfire ammo also can or must be better than factory match ammo.

 

[davidjoe]

That manufacturers don’t meter close to the same amount of powder in each match round case is evident, though. Many people have confirmed this. That step should not be hard or guarded.

I personally believe, just me, that the practice of grading lots of “identically” made ammo into tiers that steeply rise in price and get boxed under different names and colors as if they are truly different, is evidence, that the production process is looser and less perfected than is ideal. I mean, some lots sell out by number while others stagnate even amongst the same grade.

 

[ELR Researcher]

Seems folks are generally leaving the individual rifle out of the equation. While getting one in eight lots to shoot "well" might work some time, for some rifle, there is no way to be sure that just testing those 8 lots will yield a winning combination. At this point in time (1/5/2021) KSS lists 29 lots of Tenex rifle in their TX warehouse (they stopped posting lot number data from Zander/St Louis over a month ago - low staffing levels at Zander and unreliable, inventories stats - no real-time data - last lot-level data from Zander (11/11) showed 62 (sixty-two) lots). So, even in poor-availability times (NOW) there are a lot more than 29 lots to select from - then hoping you find one that not only works in YOUR rifle AND is still available to purchase more of by the time you've completed testing.

Reloading allows you the OPPORTUNITY to tune your ammo to the rifle. CE has spent a year in development including developing a supply source for good spun-primed casings. CE has a ton of experience with solids, they can control the bullet side of the equation. And they have found (hopefully) a reliable, spun-primed casing supplier. That leaves powder (again a varying-lot-performance scenario BUT another opportunity to tune). CE has found and recommends VV 3N37 (https://cuttingedgebullets.com/pub/media/wysiwyg/docs/22lr_reloading_instructions.pdf). So, the components ARE (or will very shortly be) available. Opportunity knocking!

BTW, as I see it, there is NO upside in CE bring out loaded ammo - if that is what you are waiting for - since that would result in them (and their customers) falling right into the current "factory" ammo hell hole - very high probability of a mismatch to the actual rifle for, at least, unlimited competition and virtually NO seller willing to stock and sell by lot number. BUT, as has been noted/suggested elsewhere in this thread, for the sanctioning associations, that (mass "ammo" production) is what will be required to get those associations to accept such ammo in competition. [Comparable prices of CE to Tenex - one pound of powder would be good for 2000+ rounds, less than 2 cents/round - makes cost a non-issue, at least in unlimited competition.] At the loaded-ammo level I have zero reason to believe that, except by some miracle, CE will out match Eley and Lapua in regards loaded ammo. [And, please note, KSS is the ONLY source of lot-number ammo DATA - and, as part of Eley, only for Eley ammo. CE would need to do the same thing - i.e., stock, offer, and sell at the lot-number level - adding costs at multiple levels, physical inventory segregation, and not-insignificant inventory accounting/system mods.]

Bottom line to my ramblings, lets wait and see what happens with competition where reloaded ammo is, or will become, "legal". IF there is a demonstrated advantage for reloaded vs factory, then, I suspect, one or more of the current "factory-ammo-only" associations will "liberalize" their rules to allow reloads. THEN the war begins.

 

[grauhanen]

That manufactures don’t meter close to the same amount of powder in each match round case is evident, though. Many people have confirmed this. That step should not be hard or guarded.

I personally believe, just me, that the practice of grading lots of “identically” made ammo into tiers that steeply rise in price and get boxed under different names and colors as if they are truly different, is evidence, that the production process is looser and less perfected than is ideal. I mean, some lots sell out by number while others stagnate even amongst the same grade.

It's impossible to know how much powder is in any match round unless it is taken apart and measured. At that point it's not possible to evaluate how that round, or others like it, will shoot. Similarly, it's impossible to know how much powder is in a .22LR round that is shot. It's gone. Performance downrange on the target are only partly explained by how much powder is in the round. Primer application consistency, crimping consistency, case dimension consistency, and bullet dimension variation, seating depth, and concentricity are among the factors that have important roles in the accuracy potential of a round -- and that's without considering it's suitablility to a particular bore.

The production of .22LR match ammo is indeed less than ideal. That helps explain why the names of top tier ammos alone -- Eley Tenex and Lapua Midas + or X-Act -- are themselves not a guarantee that all lots of ammo with those names will shoot well in all barrels, most barrels, or a particular barrel. For the best accuracy, it is necessary to test different lots of even the best .22LR match ammo. The name on the box doesn't guarantee the best accuracy. Lot testing is the only way.

The reason why some lots sell out quickly is that shooters looking for "good ammo" hear that certain lots shoot well. They buy these lots without lot testing to know for themselves whether it will in fact shoot well in their particular rifles. They gamble that shooting "well" in other rifles means it will shoot well in theirs. While some lots may shoot well in a number of rifles, no serious shooters will take it as a given that it is certain to shoot well in his. Quite simply, many shooters buy lots that others say shoot well because they skip the time consuming and potentially costly step of lot testing.

 

[grauhanen]

Seems folks are generally leaving the individual rifle out of the equation. While getting one in eight lots to shoot "well" might work some time, for some rifle, there is no way to be sure that just testing those 8 lots will yield a winning combination. At this point in time (1/5/2021) KSS lists 29 lots of Tenex rifle in their TX warehouse (they stopped posting lot number data from Zander/St Louis over a month ago - low staffing levels at Zander and unreliable, inventories stats - no real-time data - last lot-level data from Zander (11/11) showed 62 (sixty-two) lots). So, even in poor-availability times (NOW) there are a lot more than 29 lots to select from - then hoping you find one that not only works in YOUR rifle AND is still available to purchase more of by the time you've completed testing.

Reloading allows you the OPPORTUNITY to tune your ammo to the rifle. CE has spent a year in development including developing a supply source for good spun-primed casings. CE has a ton of experience with solids, they can control the bullet side of the equation. And they have found (hopefully) a reliable, spun-primed casing supplier. That leaves powder (again a varying-lot-performance scenario BUT another opportunity to tune). CE has found and recommends VV 3N47 (https://cuttingedgebullets.com/pub/media/wysiwyg/docs/22lr_reloading_instructions.pdf). So, the components ARE (or will very shortly be) available. Opportunity knocking!

BTW, as I see it, there is NO upside in CE bring out loaded ammo - if that is what you are waiting for - since that would result in them (and their customers) falling right into the current "factory" ammo hell hole - very high probability of a mismatch to the actual rifle for, at least, unlimited competition and virtually NO seller willing to stock and sell by lot number. BUT, as has been noted/suggested elsewhere in this thread, for the sanctioning associations, that (mass "ammo" production) is what will be required to get those associations to accept such ammo in competition. [Comparable prices of CE to Tenex - one pound of powder would be good for 2000+ rounds, less than 2 cents/round - makes cost a non-issue, at least in unlimited competition.] At the loaded-ammo level I have zero reason to believe that, except by some miracle, CE will out match Eley and Lapua in regards loaded ammo. [And, please note, KSS is the ONLY source of lot-number ammo DATA - and, as part of Eley, only for Eley ammo. CE would need to do the same thing - i.e., stock, offer, and sell at the lot-number level - adding costs at multiple levels, physical inventory segregation, and not-insignificant inventory accounting/system mods.]

Bottom line to my ramblings, lets wait and see what happens with competition where reloaded ammo is, or will become, "legal". IF there is a demonstrated advantage for reloaded vs factory, then, I suspect, one or more of the current "factory-ammo-only" associations will "liberalize" their rules to allow reloads. THEN the war begins.

CE only controls the bullet itself. The other components that are critical to producing reloaded .22LR ammo -- the casing, the priming, the powder -- all play a significant role, along with how they are put together. Simply getting a casing that's already primed and adding a prescribed amount of powder doesn't make it the equal of what is used in top .22LR match ammos.

Controlling the consistency and application of primer in the casing is not necessarily a simple matter. The fact that Aguila uses Eley Prime technology, yet doesn't produce especially accurate ammo is evidence that any primed casing will do. Using a certain exact amount of powder in the casing is only part of the loading process -- factory or hand -- that produces good ammo. There's more to it than that, otherwise .22LR match ammo would be more consistent than it is.

Perhaps the components, tools and equipment for reloading good .22LR ammo will become available. They may help make the process of reloading good .22 rimfire ammo possible. But except for possibly the CE bullets, only one part of the equation, they are not here yet.

 

[davidjoe]

^^ agree with very nearly all of that grauhanen. Still, there is generally some resistance to the conceptual question of whether some lots of the same branded match ammo are simply inferior to others. In other words, they shoot bigger groups than better, more uniform lots, in all “competitive” rifles. (If you disassemble and weigh powder finding disparities, you don’t have to be able to shoot it to know there would have been a problem.) It’s not meant to be a slight to the efforts of Eley or Lapua to plainly say that the same money (and it’s hefty for the best) won’t always assure exactly the same results, in the quality of product. It never does anywhere, honestly.

I believe there are inferior lots. They won’t shoot better in any rifle than their pallet-neighbors because the powder wasn’t as uniformly metered or it didn’t start out as “good” from the maker as other batches. Using the tier system, just by itself seems to be an admission that production lots of theoretical “clones” aren’t actually all equal. I do believe there are rifles that are not accurate enough to reveal or to benefit from the differences between lots, and certainly some chambers or bores prefer certain subtly different designs. But you won’t find different designs in testing lots, although you will find ES and group differences. There are match lots that don’t sell well as a result of machine rest testing. They keep being tried, and don’t do as well. That’s the piece that is delicate, because it’s all got to be moved.

 

[Geno C]

I was going to start quoting individuals but I’ll just make this general. I’m going to guess, not many in here have loaded 22lr ammo themselves, and therefore are really just guessing or making assumptions.

Saying powder variation isn’t a problem with factory ammo is false. All other things being equal, a variation in charge will almost always result in a variation in speed. Remember, this is a tiny case, smell variations that would be masked in a larger case will have a larger affect here.

Primed cases have been around for quite a while. A friend of mine had a couple cases of virgin primed eley that he’s had for over a decade. The primed cases will get figured out or well disassemble cases and do it that way. The same aguila ammo that shoot only fair, makes awesome primed cases for handloading in my experience.

Anyone know why and how Aguila ended up using Eley’s priming technology? I do

CE recommendation of 3n37, not 47, is for that specific bullet, keep that in mind.

The tools to load 22lr are not anymore complicated than loading pistol ammo. No need to make things harder than they need to be.

The shooter with CE took 3 shots to get in at 1042yd and then went 4/4 on the steel. I’m assuming they are getting at least as consistent results as I am.

I agree that them wanting to come out with loaded ammo is not the best idea, but it’s their company, not mine. I see handloading as the path to best success with these solid bullets coming out.

 

[CJ6]

I was going to start quoting individuals but I’ll just make this general. I’m going to guess, not many in here have loaded 22lr ammo themselves, and therefore are really just guessing or making assumptions.

Saying powder variation isn’t a problem with factory ammo is false. All other things being equal, a variation in charge will almost always result in a variation in speed. Remember, this is a tiny case, smell variations that would be masked in a larger case will have a larger affect here.

Primed cases have been around for quite a while. A friend of mine had a couple cases of virgin primed eley that he’s had for over a decade. The primed cases will get figured out or well disassemble cases and do it that way. The same aguila ammo that shoot only fair, makes awesome primed cases for handloading in my experience.

Anyone know why and how Aguila ended up using Eley’s priming technology? I do



The tools to load 22lr are not anymore complicated than loading pistol ammo. No need to make things harder than they need to be.

The shooter with CE took 3 shots to get in at 1042yd and then went 4/4 on the steel. I’m assuming they are getting at least as consistent results as I am.

I agree that them wanting to come out with loaded ammo is not the best idea, but it’s their company, not mine. I see handloading as the path to best success with these solid bullets coming out.

3N37 is the powder that Lapua uses in it's HIGH end match loads.

 

[Geno C]

3N37 is the powder that Lapua uses in it's HIGH end match loads.

Good info.

 

[grauhanen]

Saying powder variation isn’t a problem with factory ammo is false. All other things being equal, a variation in charge will almost always result in a variation in speed. Remember, this is a tiny case, smell variations that would be masked in a larger case will have a larger affect here.

Primed cases have been around for quite a while. A friend of mine had a couple cases of virgin primed eley that he’s had for over a decade. The primed cases will get figured out or well disassemble cases and do it that way. The same aguila ammo that shoot only fair, makes awesome primed cases for handloading in my experience.

Anyone know why and how Aguila ended up using Eley’s priming technology? I do

CE recommendation of 3n37, not 47, is for that specific bullet, keep that in mind.

The tools to load 22lr are not anymore complicated than loading pistol ammo. No need to make things harder than they need to be.

The shooter with CE took 3 shots to get in at 1042yd and then went 4/4 on the steel. I’m assuming they are getting at least as consistent results as I am.

I agree that them wanting to come out with loaded ammo is not the best idea, but it’s their company, not mine. I see handloading as the path to best success with these solid bullets coming out.

No one said that powder variations were never a problem with .22LR match ammo. Few mass produced products are exactly identical. But no one can know how much powder there is in any round that hasn't been disassembled.

In any event, powder is only one part of the equation. Primer that is correctly and consistently applied is very critical for ammo consistency. The primer is like an explosive that detonates. It's responsible for the first movement of the bullet.

Primer compound comprises less than 1% of the entire weight of the round but, according to some sources, accounts for some sources for as much as 30% of the .22LR's total power. While it may in fact be less, it's crucial that it be in applied in the correct amount and in the most consistent way. If it's not, the consequences will be seen on the targets.

In short, the priming compound in the casing provides a not insignificant part of the power of .22LR. If the primer is less than consistent, the ammo can be less than consistent. Not all primed .22LR cases can be considered equal and only testing results can determine how good they might be.

Inconsistencies also occur in crimping. Some individual rounds may have bullets that seem loose, that rotate freely. These have obviously loose crimping, but ammo performance can be affected by less obvious crimping differences Bullets may also have inconsistencies in the heel dimensions. They may have both problems.

These are not the only difficulties in producing .22LR ammo, regardless whether it's factory loaded or by hand. The fact remains that there is very little, if any, data to show how reloaded .22LR ammo performs compared to factory loaded ammo. Very real challenges have inhibited not only those who wish to reload .22LR ammo, and these have not disappeared with the development of the CE or similar bullets and commercially available primed casings. It is not as simple as reloading pistol ammo. Here the absence of evidence is important.

If anyone has mastered reloading .22LR ammo that's comparable to match ammo, he should provide the verifying information.

 

[HPC]

Speaking of the devil, the article begins on page 22:

Shooting Sports USA - January 2021

 

[Geno C]

No one said that powder variations were never a problem with .22LR match ammo. Few mass produced products are exactly identical. But no one can know how much powder there is in any round that hasn't been disassembled.

In any event, powder is only one part of the equation. Primer that is correctly and consistently applied is very critical for ammo consistency. The primer is like an explosive that detonates. It's responsible for the first movement of the bullet.

Primer compound comprises less than 1% of the entire weight of the round but, according to some sources, accounts for some sources for as much as 30% of the .22LR's total power. While it may in fact be less, it's crucial that it be in applied in the correct amount and in the most consistent way. If it's not, the consequences will be seen on the targets.

In short, the priming compound in the casing provides a not insignificant part of the power of .22LR. If the primer is less than consistent, the ammo can be less than consistent. Not all primed .22LR cases can be considered equal and only testing results can determine how good they might be.

Inconsistencies also occur in crimping. Some individual rounds may have bullets that seem loose, that rotate freely. These have obviously loose crimping, but ammo performance can be affected by less obvious crimping differences Bullets may also have inconsistencies in the heel dimensions. They may have both problems.

These are not the only difficulties in producing .22LR ammo, regardless whether it's factory loaded or by hand. The fact remains that there is very little, if any, data to show how reloaded .22LR ammo performs compared to factory loaded ammo. Very real challenges have inhibited not only those who wish to reload .22LR ammo, and these have not disappeared with the development of the CE or similar bullets and commercially available primed casings. It is not as simple as reloading pistol ammo. Here the absence of evidence is important.

If anyone has mastered reloading .22LR ammo that's comparable to match ammo, he should provide the verifying information.

Your missing your own point. If you’re using the best primed cases available and able to control the bullet and powder to a better level of consistency than factory loaded ammo, how do you think handloaded ammo is not better, or at least as consistent as factory ammo.

The evidence is in my notes. Without you here, breathing over my shoulder, my notes mean nothing to you I assume.

Explain how factory ammo, loaded with the same primed cases, loaded on factory machines, would be more consistent than handloaded ammo with the same primed cases?

 

[grauhanen]

^^ agree with very nearly all of that grauhanen. Still, there is generally some resistance to the conceptual question of whether some lots of the same branded match ammo are simply inferior to others. In other words, they shoot bigger groups than better, more uniform lots, in all “competitive” rifles. (If you disassemble and weigh powder finding disparities, you don’t have to be able to shoot it to know there would have been a problem.) It’s not meant to be a slight to the efforts of Eley or Lapua to plainly say that the same money (and it’s hefty for the best) won’t always assure exactly the same results, in the quality of product. It never does anywhere, honestly.

I believe there are inferior lots. They won’t shoot better in any rifle than their pallet-neighbors because the powder wasn’t as uniformly metered or it didn’t start out as “good” from the maker as other batches. Using the tier system, just by itself seems to be an admission that production lots of theoretical “clones” aren’t actually all equal. I do believe there are rifles that are not accurate enough to reveal or to benefit from the differences between lots, and certainly some chambers or bores prefer certain subtly different designs. But you won’t find different designs in testing lots, although you will find ES and group differences. There are match lots that don’t sell well as a result of machine rest testing. They keep being tried, and don’t do as well. That’s the piece that is delicate, because it’s all got to be moved.

davidjoe makes some very good observations. Some lots are better than others over a greater number of barrels. But no lot shoots well in all competive rifles. It's not simply because of different amounts of powder between rounds as there are other very significant factors in ammo production that go into making consistent and accurate ammo. In short, it's not only the amount of powder that makes differences.

There are two basic reasons why there is no such thing as a universal and perfect ammo. One is that each lot is unique. Each one has it's own peculiarities derived from variables in components and/or production.
The other is that all barrels are relatively unique. Even barrels on the same model of factory rifle are not identical. The same goes for custom barrels, although differences may not be as distinct or easy to identify. In addition to the obvious differences of length and diameter, among the characteristics of barrels that influence the way they can shoot are metalurgical differences between and within them. In other words they may not be metallurgically 100% homgenous from breech to muzzle. Bore diamter and concentricity can also vary between barrels and within them. For example, one barrel may be tighter in places where another one is not. Differences also can occur in the interior surface of the bore, ranging from how smooth or rough the bore is to the characteristics and condition of the rifling. When differences in chambers are included, it can be seen that rifle barrels can be like faces in that many may be similar but none are identical just as in twins.

To return to the question of perfect lots, it may be helpful to consider different lots of Eley Tenex, a top tier match ammo. Eley used to show the testing results with each lot of ammo with the Eley Lot Analyzer, now no longer available online. The results were produced by testing each lot through four different test barrels. The test tunnel ten-shot group results were scored electronically and the barreled actions were clamped in fixtures.

Below are the results of various lots of Eley Tenex.

The first one below is a relatively consistent lot in all four barrels, with at least some good ten-shot groups from each barrel.



Below is another lot, which is not unique for Tenex in that it has consistent results in only two of the test barrels. The barrels with obviously larger groups still had a few good ones. The unfortanate thing is that similar results are not unusual with Tenex ammo.

It underscores the need to lot test ammo -- even the top level match ammos -- to find what lot or lots shoot well in a particular rifle.



Below are other examples of different lots of Tenex. In none of them is the ammo consistent across four barrels. In some lots, a barrel or two might shoot some very good ten-shot groups but not all groups are good.

Of course, the Eley Lot Analyzer couldn't be used to find the best lot for a shooter's rifle. He would have to lot test to find the ammo on his own.

 

[grauhanen]

Your missing your own point. If you’re using the best primed cases available and able to control the bullet and powder to a better level of consistency than factory loaded ammo, how do you think handloaded ammo is not better, or at least as consistent as factory ammo.

The evidence is in my notes. Without you here, breathing over my shoulder, my notes mean nothing to you I assume.

Explain how factory ammo, loaded with the same primed cases, loaded on factory machines, would be more consistent than handloaded ammo with the same primed cases?

What are the "best primed cases available" to which you refer? The best primed .22LR cases made are those produced by the match ammo makers. Do any of them sell or otherwise make available primed cases to reloaders? If they do, I will have to say I was unaware. I welcome further information in this regard.

Rather than seeing your shooting notes from a preferably respectful distance, it would be more informative and helpful if readers could see your results in the form of targets showing the performance of reloaded .22LR ammo. Targets would show how the ammo performs and would give a comparison to how match ammo performs. Targets with results at 50 yards or 100 would be fine.

 

[Geno C]

What are the "best primed cases available" to which you refer? The best primed .22LR cases made are those produced by the match ammo makers. Do any of them sell or otherwise make available primed cases to reloaders? If they do, I will have to say I was unaware. I welcome further information in this regard.

Rather than seeing your shooting notes from a preferably respectful distance, it would be more informative and helpful if readers could see your results in the form of targets showing the performance of reloaded .22LR ammo. Targets would show how the ammo performs and would give a comparison to how match ammo performs. Targets with results at 50 yards or 100 would be fine

I can post targets. I my loaded ammo inside of 100 yards though. I didnt make it for that. Next outing I’ll save the targets or take pictures of the steel.

As for the best primed cases available, in my testing, it’s been Eley’s stuff. I’ve pulled apart quite a few brands of ammo and inspected them, the ones with priming compound splashed on the sides of the cases were immediately eliminated. I haven’t shot enough of the different levels of Eley’s offering to see a statistically significant difference. I am currently using Aguila’s brass from their match line that uses eley prime. It has been as consistent as pulled Tenex for me.

No major manufacturer, besides FedArms, sells primed virgin brass to the public that I am aware of. My guess is, that will change in the future seeing where this all is going.