Custom actions vs. Savage actions ;D

[Nomad47]

To ALL that have posted on this and other Savage threads.

I don't have a problem with an honest assessment of Savages. What I have an issue with is the pure bashing. Hippy's post on a different Savage thread was just that and totally uncalled for.

I will admit that I don't care for the Savage trigger when it comes out of the box. But I know how to work them over and get them to the point where they are VERY acceptable for my kind of shooting.

 

[wolley]

Bill,
Can you put together some sort of tutorial on tuning the accutrigger?
After about 3,000 cycles mine got strange. I bought the Rifle Basix SAV-2
and it is sloppy piece of poorly manufactured junk.

 

[chevytruck_83]

In the end the guy in the orange car loses his car when the others come back more prepared. Guess they purchased a custom. .. Another thing kinda funny about the video is your saying the car closest to stock trim is the (custom) and the tuned (flashy eclipse) is somehow the savage. Most guys on here are running close to stock savages therefore the orange car has to b the savage. Hehe

 

[Erik Cortina]

In the end the guy in the orange car loses his car when the others come back more prepared. Guess they purchased a custom. .. Another thing kinda funny about the video is your saying the car closest to stock trim is the (custom) and the tuned (flashy eclipse) is somehow the savage. Most guys on here are running close to stock savages therefore the orange car has to b the savage. Hehe

You missed the point, but that was expected.

 

[Switchbarrel]

It's an ongoing debate on this forum.
One one side we have the custom action shooters explaining over and over the advantages of a custom over a Savage.
On the other, we have the hardcore Savage owners claiming that their actions are as good as a custom.

Well, I found a video on youTube that shows how this debate unfolds in real life. They used cars instead of actions, but you get the idea.

Orange car, driver with sunglasses = Custom action and custom action owner competing at matches. Good as is from the manufacturer. Well, sort of. Can't ignore the barrel, caliber, etc.

Purple convertible with the spoiler, neon lights, paint job, and most important, the drivers confidence (note their cheering squad as well) = Savage action and Savage action shooter on forums. The cheering squad is all those guys that post "+1" after a Savage owner has made another post about Savage's accuracy.
Again, it's not just the action at work and in many cases we are talking about a "factory" barrel & other parts

I feel like the minority or maybe the embodiment of this thread. I believe part of the point you might be trying to make with the car analogy is possibly the Challenger driver goes about his business with a quiet confidence (not you here) whereas the other is making more of a spectacle and justification for his "ride".

I'd be willing to bet you that Challenger isn't stock. Just like a custom rifle won't be stock either. Outside of H-S Precision, ULA and Shilen to some degree (now that Lawton is gone), no custom maker I can think of could have a "stock" custom actioned gun - they don't make all the parts. (doesn't matter just making a point).

A stock Savage can shoot VERY well. A non-stock Savage can shoot even better. Trying to keep things at least somewhat red vs. green apples instead of apples to oranges; a Sharp Shooter or Rifle Basix trigger improves the Savage a lot. Maybe not a Jewell but, still quite an improvement (Many "tactical" shooters hate Jewell's BTW). Again, to make things fairer, put a (name your favorite barrel maker) custom barrel on the Savage as well as a McMillan, PR&T or ? stock too.

If you have a custom Savage and a custom actioned rifle, caliber for caliber, the "driver mod" is going to be the most important. With cars, the fastest car doesn't always win if the driver can't drive. Same with the rifles.

I have custom actions from Barnard, BAT, Kelbly, Nesika Bay, a Marsh on order and barrels from even more custom barrel makers. Yes, the Barnard feels like a bank vault when closing the bolt and the BAT 2x10" feels really slick when chambering a round.

Even though I built them as fireforming guns after the fact, I also have a couple custom Savages that used the same reamers and honestly shoot pretty darn well - they are a few pounds lighter and the actions don't feel quite as nice. If I didn't have both, I wouldn't know the difference and wouldn't care. I've brought them along to matches as back up guns, "just in case". I had the "customs" first and I've spent the money, so that's what I shoot. One thing I do know...if I didn't have the custom actioned rifles, I would have a lot more money to do other things. Having both rifles, I don't normally feel the need to justify either. Not justifying or being a fanboy for my Savages here, they are what they are. I just don't like seeing custom action owners spouting off like an a$$ either. The guy that has to scrimp and save for that Savage action, Criterion barrel and B&C stock is probably pretty proud of it vs. having bought a factory AXIS or package rifle.

If someone can afford it, yes I would recommend XYZ custom action if the configuration fits their needs...and if they can't afford it, I certainly would recommend a Savage (esp. a PTA for you righty's) over some others to shoot/compete with.

I'm not sure what all this is worth other than a "+1" to my post count.

FWIW - My (custom) Corvette, since they were mentioned elsewhere, is no slouch at 535 rwhp with virtually everything modified that can be. I would be foolish not to fear the blinged out, body kit (Savage) Supra's - there's a lot of 'em pushin' 800-1000 rwhp.

-Rick ;D 8)

 

[Nomad47]

Well said, switchbarrel. And it is nice to hear from someone that has both Savage & custom and does NOT rag or brag on either.
Thanks for the post.

 

[Hoier]

I also have both. I have a Bat SV and Stiller along with some Savages.

I still like Savages but if your gonna start in mid/long range BR you'll be leaps and bounds ahead if you went with a custom to start with. I had a Evolution trigger on my Savage and it was great but the action still isn't smooth enough for BR use. Now if you were gonna shoot fclass, I think you can still compete with one. with my limited experience in fclass the smoothness doesn't matter as much since you have to wait for the pit crew. Another reason you don't see them on top very much is that the top shooters are gonna do whatever it takes to have the best equipment they can afford. For example: how many Savages were actually there vs. customs? I bet there were WAY more customs there than Savages. And in BR you very seldom will see a Savage on top.

 

[Raythemanroe]

Switchbarrel, are you saying that Savage shooters are just bad shooters?

 

[letronshootit]

Ray, I didn't get that message at all. That would be crazy to imply that one that can't buy custom can't shoot. I too would be offended. In my opinion he sounds logical, one does what one can in regards to money spent on out of budget activities. -Ron

 

[savageshooter86]

Get 2 barrels made at the same time. Same specs and manufacturer. Work up a load that drives tacks with them. Now shoot one barrel in a custom action and one in a Savage action. To make it even, shoot both off mechanical rests and hypothetically in a 1000 yard indoor range. Will the custom out shoot the Savage?

Another point, I have shot well over 4000 rounds total with two Savage actions(PTA and model 110). Never had a trigger issue. My shooting friends all have PTA and they have shot probably total of 15k+ between all of them and they have never had a trigger issue that I know of.

 

[Erik Cortina]

SS86, set your trigger at 1.5 oz and get back to us with a reliability report.

 

[Nomad47]

If ss86 can compete with the trigger the way it is and he is used to it, why should he set it to 1.5 oz?
Just because someone said so?

 

[Raythemanroe]

Get 2 barrels made at the same time. Same specs and manufacturer. Work up a load that drives tacks with them. Now shoot one barrel in a custom action and one in a Savage action. To make it even, shoot both off mechanical rests and hypothetically in a 1000 yard indoor range. Will the custom out shoot the Savage?

Another point, I have shot well over 4000 rounds total with two Savage actions(PTA and model 110). Never had a trigger issue. My shooting friends all have PTA and they have shot probably total of 15k+ between all of them and they have never had a trigger issue that I know of.

I'm not a Savage basher, I like any gun that brings the shooter to the range..My earlier post was a joke kind of, there was a lot of rambling about how a Savage is as good but I don't use one and it could be modified beyond a custom.. If that is truly the case, I would need to assume that the leader board would be solely Savage..I don't believe It is just the shoot either, That would be like saying because the leader board has more customs then Savage shooters must be they can't pull a trigger..If anything working with less and still competing would rate higher on my list...

savageshooter86, I think that the Savage trigger problems come when trying to get them below there safe limits, problems should be zilch if not modified or stretched beyond there limits..Jewel they are not though..

 

[savageshooter86]

Erik I have mine set where I feel it helps me pull more consistently. It is probably around 10 oz. I don't like very lite tirgger on my FTR rifle.

 

[Erik Cortina]

If ss86 can compete with the trigger the way it is and he is used to it, why should he set it to 1.5 oz?
Just because someone said so?

Bill, my point was that just about any trigger out there is reliable at a heavy setting. It's when you get down to "competition" levels that the Savage triggers fall short.

 

[Hoier]

If ss86 can compete with the trigger the way it is and he is used to it, why should he set it to 1.5 oz?
Just because someone said so?

Bill, my point was that just about any trigger out there is reliable at a heavy setting. It's when you get down to "competition" levels that the Savage triggers fall short.

Unless you get the SSS Evolution, it is very good. The biggest drawback is you have to send your action to SSS.

 

[Erik Cortina]

If ss86 can compete with the trigger the way it is and he is used to it, why should he set it to 1.5 oz?
Just because someone said so?

Bill, my point was that just about any trigger out there is reliable at a heavy setting. It's when you get down to "competition" levels that the Savage triggers fall short.

Unless you get the SSS Evolution, it is very good. The biggest drawback is you have to send your action to SSS.

Yeah, I've heard those are pretty good, they only slam fire every few months.

 

[Nomad47]

I was about to type "Whatever", to Erik. But I will reply.

I can set my Savage 12 BVSS trigger to 2 oz (and I have witnesses that it is that light) - without the blade. And I trust it as long as my brass is properly sized. BUT the blade is an integral and important part of the Savage trigger as the blade prevents slam fires.

I own a Jewell trigger but haven't touched it yet ('put together' in progress), so I cannot say anything about the Jewell one way or another. But I am curious. Will a Jewell NEVER slam fire when set at 1.5 oz?

 

[Erik Cortina]

I was about to type "Whatever", to Erik. But I will reply.

I can set my Savage 12 BVSS trigger to 2 oz (and I have witnesses that it is that light) - without the blade. And I trust it as long as my brass is properly sized. BUT the blade is an integral and important part of the Savage trigger as the blade prevents slam fires.

I own a Jewell trigger but haven't touched it yet ('put together' in progress), so I cannot say anything about the Jewell one way or another. But I am curious. Will a Jewell NEVER slam fire when set at 1.5 oz?

Read post, that's an oxymoron.

Bill, on the Jewell BR, 1.5 oz is their standard setting. So no, they will not slam fire unless you adjust them wrong.

 

[Nomad47]

I believe what I bought is the standard Jewell BR trigger - no bolt stop or safety. So I guess it will be 1.5 oz, in which case I have no reason to make any adjustments.