CUSTOM ACTION DIFFERENCES

[Rick_W]

Bighorn TL3, Kelbly's, Impact, Lone Peak are all good actions and you can find shouldered pre-fits easily. The Bighorn Origin will require the Hunt Long Range recoil lug to take TL3 pre-fits. BAT, Barnard, Borden are all getting in the PMS game. But I would stick with companies that have been doing it for a while. Super tight tolerances will work against you in the dirt and dust.

As far as bolt manipulation, there are a lot of beginners in the game . Also the actions/triggers are not the same as benchrest, they are field guns. Lastly, if you are balancing on one foot hanging off a wobbly barricade, you're gonna have trouble cycling any action smoothly. Lone Peak has probably the lightest smoothest bolt lift of the ones I listed. Others can be tweaked (timed triggers/etc) to help. Magazines and feeding are a big, big deal too.

Appreciate the reply.

Most of the bolt manipulation problems I see appear to be happening when the magazine is being pushed into a barricade or shooting bag, but not all. I don't know if that is due to the action, stock or magazine. Or maybe a little of all three?

 

[kindabitey]

Appreciate the reply.

Most of the bolt manipulation problems I see appear to be happening when the magazine is being pushed into a barricade or shooting bag, but not all. I don't know if that is due to the action, stock or magazine. Or maybe a little of all three?

Most times, when shoving against a barricade or bag on a prop, it forces the rear of the mag up against the bolt. MPA has an insert to help remedy this in their chassis.
The best setup I've seen is the adjustable magwell in a J. Allen, but they're gone, for now. I can only hope MDT continues with it when they re-release it.

 

[jdh47]

Most of the custom actions have the Remington footprint and some differ in extraction. I think the Seekins uses the Remington type extractor. Some others use the Savage which they took from the post 64 Winchester. Others use the mini 16 extractor. The Mausingfield Extractor utilizes the non rotating claw Mauser controlled round feed design and it's ejection is a blade type reminiscent of the 98 Mauser as well. Pinned recoil lugs are a help in changing barrels as the recoil lug will not need anything to index it when you put the barrel on and torque it. The Mausingfield also has a rotating pinned bolt head sort of like the Savage so caliber changes can be done without requiring a new bolt. It's also probably the most costly.

Shouldered barrels do require fitting and the barrel nut system allows for ease of head spacing but you will need head space gages to change it out.

It mostly will come down to what features you prefer and at what cost point you're comfortable with. You can find a lot of different setups on the range that different people use.

 

[Richard Coody]

Another to consider is the kelblys atlas it’s butter smooth and there tolerances are second to none

only thing is if your going to be running the bolt hard you need to get there heavy duty bolt stop

Yep
And all you have to do is give Kelby's your serial number and they will spin you up a barrel wi5hout having the action.

 

[TBeghtol]

Greetings all...
I have been using to good effect several "trued" Remington actions over the years. I am not a bench rest shooter, but big game, varmint and general all around shooter interested in accuracy. I tinker around with a few wildcats like the Dasher and 6mm Fat Rat/Grinch as well as factory calibers. I reload all of my ammunition and have access to some great long range shooting facilities here in the Las Vegas area. Might dabble in some casual F class and informal Benchrest as well.

Question: I am coming up on my retirement from the military (Army) after almost 26 years. Been thinking about off loading some of my previous bolt actions and perhaps getting one or two nice custom actions to continue my tinkering/shooting.

Sort of requirements/wish list:
Remington pattern might be nice as I have F class and bench style stocks already for that...
Integral lug perhaps but not necessity. I have action wrenches/barrel vise/lug alignment tools.
Interested in which (other than purely bench rest actions) are manufactured to allow threading/chambering interchangeability from action to action.
Needs to be able to operate in the "real world" of some dust/grit etc but still have a nice feel, timing, bolt lift....

Hope I am not asking too much and thanks in advance.

 

[Rick_W]

Greetings all...
I have been using to good effect several "trued" Remington actions over the years. I am not a bench rest shooter, but big game, varmint and general all around shooter interested in accuracy. I tinker around with a few wildcats like the Dasher and 6mm Fat Rat/Grinch as well as factory calibers. I reload all of my ammunition and have access to some great long range shooting facilities here in the Las Vegas area. Might dabble in some casual F class and informal Benchrest as well.

Question: I am coming up on my retirement from the military (Army) after almost 26 years. Been thinking about off loading some of my previous bolt actions and perhaps getting one or two nice custom actions to continue my tinkering/shooting.

Sort of requirements/wish list:
Remington pattern might be nice as I have F class and bench style stocks already for that...
Integral lug perhaps but not necessity. I have action wrenches/barrel vise/lug alignment tools.
Interested in which (other than purely bench rest actions) are manufactured to allow threading/chambering interchangeability from action to action.
Needs to be able to operate in the "real world" of some dust/grit etc but still have a nice feel, timing, bolt lift....

Hope I am not asking too much and thanks in advance.

Basically the same thing I'm looking for.

Congrats on the retirement. I did just under 24 USN.

 

[TBeghtol]

Rick_W,

Yep sounds like we are coming from the same place... I am thinking pretty hard about a Ruckus to start with.
Looks like they fit most if not all of my wants.
Let me know what you decide on.
What part of the world are you going to settle in when you get back?

 

[Rick_W]

I haven't made a decision yet. The more I research the more I find I don't know.

Not having a basis of comparison (other than a factory Savage & Ruger) I'm sure I'll not realize how good/bad a custom action is compared to another.

We've settled in S. MS but keep looking west. I enjoy my 10 acres of seclusion, surrounded by woods, cows and farms. No internet (except through cell phone or satellite) and no cable. I can't see my neighbors in the summertime and only barely in the winter. I can hear them some, though. Makes we want to move to even more seclusion...

 

[Forward543]

I run a nucleus. It's badastronaut. I do my own barrels and it shoots very well. You can get prefits or use a savage barrel nut. I like the nucleus mostly because of nerd reasons. A defiance would likely get my second vote.

 

[FeMan]

I have Bighorn, Surgeon, Impact Precision and a couple trued Rem 700s. I like them all but the Impact Precision is the one I like best, followed by Surgeon, then Rem 700 and then Bighorn. If you are going to shoot PRS with it, make sure the action and trigger will run reliably when super dusty/dirty. I've shot matches where triggers went down and actions bound up all around due to the unbelievable dust. That makes for a ton of frustration.

 

[Gil P.]

Greetings all...
I have been using to good effect several "trued" Remington actions over the years. I am not a bench rest shooter, but big game, varmint and general all around shooter interested in accuracy. I tinker around with a few wildcats like the Dasher and 6mm Fat Rat/Grinch as well as factory calibers. I reload all of my ammunition and have access to some great long range shooting facilities here in the Las Vegas area. Might dabble in some casual F class and informal Benchrest as well.

Question: I am coming up on my retirement from the military (Army) after almost 26 years. Been thinking about off loading some of my previous bolt actions and perhaps getting one or two nice custom actions to continue my tinkering/shooting.

Sort of requirements/wish list:
Remington pattern might be nice as I have F class and bench style stocks already for that...
Integral lug perhaps but not necessity. I have action wrenches/barrel vise/lug alignment tools.
Interested in which (other than purely bench rest actions) are manufactured to allow threading/chambering interchangeability from action to action.
Needs to be able to operate in the "real world" of some dust/grit etc but still have a nice feel, timing, bolt lift....

Hope I am not asking too much and thanks in advance.

I'm from Vegas too.

I think there's a monthly match this Saturday at the Desert Sportsman's Rifle and Pistol Club. If you have the time you should go and check it out, plenty of nice rifles that you can observe and ask to play with.

Ive got a BAT TR that meets all of your requirements, (there are other actions that will too). PM me if you want to check it out.

 

[Gil P.]

I actually met Ted and handled the Mausingfield action at SHOT several years ago. That action was very smooth. With that said, the actions on almost all of the guns I handled were smoother than factory - that happens when they're cycled thousands upon thousands of times.

My experience with bolt action rifles has been a Savage, a Ruger and a Remington. I am more comfortable with the bolt throws of the Savage and Ruger than that of the Remington.

Does your Nucleus setup use a barrel nut/Remage barrels?

I don't guess I'm totally against barrel nuts but was thinking that buying prefit barrels for a custom action might be better/more accurate. Maybe I'm wrong in that thought.

I've spent most of today reading and watching videos trying to learn what stuff means.

Accepts BDL bottom metal or does not accept BDL bottom metal: what's the difference and why would you want one over the other? I'm trying to get a Bergara HMR stock with bottom metal - is that going to limit the actions I should looks at? Along the same lines, will that choice then affect chassis selection if I choose to go that route in the future?

AI vs AW style magazines: again, what's the difference and why would you want one over the other?

Integral recoil lug or dual-pinned - is one method "better" than the other?

Integral rail or pinned & screwed - again, is one method "better" than the other?

Appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts. I'm sure these questions have been asked many times and I'll eventually stumble over the answers.

1) Do not get something that only accepts BDL bottom metal. The Badger M5 inlet/bottom metal is common, the Surgeon / KMW inlet is another good choice. These inlets/bottom metals will allow you to use AICS pattern box magazines.

2) AICS mags stagger the rounds inside the magazine and the round on top is centered with the action, bolt, magazine. Think double stack pistol mags.
The AW mags stagger the rounds much more severely inside the magazine. This allows the magazine to be shorter than the AICS mag that holds the same amount of amm. The round that sits on top of the magazine is also staggered to the left or right side of the magazine.
Reliable feeding is very easily achieved with the AICS mags and usually require no fitting or special cuts in the bottom of the action.
Oftentimes AW mags require more fitting to work. You'll need a sufficiently long mag latch and an action that is cut to accept AW magazines.

3) Pinned vs machined in won't make any difference. A recoil lug that is machined in or pinned will make barrel changes a little easier. Recoil lug thickness doesn't matter.

I went with the BAT TR for my rifle. It has all the features I wanted, you can do prefits and it's compatible with Wolf Precisions chamber cylinders. I haven't tried one yet, but it seems like a good idea.

One more thing. Most magazine problems are due to issues with the bottom metal and stock. The new Xylo chassis from ARC looks like it's got some really good features. I really like the way the mag latch works. I haven't tried one yet, maybe in the future I'll find one used.

 

[Gil P.]

Also keep in mind...
Certain companies like BAT and Defiance sell actions that can be made to different specs for the same model of action.

You'll probably read about people complaining that their Defiance doesn't do well in the dirt, but that's because of the way they spec'd the bolt clearance on their action.

I havent had any problems yet with my BAT TR (from short action customs) and it's very dusty where I live.

Ask whoever you end up getting your action from how they spec the clearance between the bolt and action.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

The Bat VR, TR, and HR have about .004" bolt clearance. They are not fit tight like the BR actions.

 

[JEFFPPC]

Basically the same thing I'm looking for.

Congrats on the retirement. I did just under 24 USN.

Thanks to all for your service. My son did 24 in USAF I did 7 in the Army and Guards. This country mt need vets to stand up, again.

 

[Matt_3479]

I have terminus, defiance, kelbly, stiller and Remington 700’s trued. The terminus is my favourite and I don’t know if I’ve said it out loud before but I think the kelbly is second. The defiance is beautiful, and buttery smooth but here in Canada at 2150-2300 for a Lapua bolt face defiance, 2300 for the terminus the kelbly I got for 1299 and for almost half the price it’s one the best action I’ve ever handled and by far best bang for buck. I feel as it’s a 1700-1800 dollar action. It’s smoother then the defiance I find (more rounds on it though), mechanical ejector I like a lot, kelbly as a family/company is flat out amazing to deal with, prefits, and love the idea of a trigger hanger. Also has the lightest bolt lift

The terminus is flat out impressive. Incredibly smooth, fast, lighter lift compared to the Curtis I find, the threaded trigger pins is so easy! Not to mention what a great looking action!!

I have Bighorn, Surgeon, Impact Precision and a couple trued Rem 700s. I like them all but the Impact Precision is the one I like best, followed by Surgeon, then Rem 700 and then Bighorn. If you are going to shoot PRS with it, make sure the action and trigger will run reliably when super dusty/dirty. I've shot matches where triggers went down and actions bound up all around due to the unbelievable dust. That makes for a ton of frustration.

what’s wrong with the bighorn it’s at the bottom of the list? Was thinking of that for my next action

 

[FeMan]

............what’s wrong with the bighorn it’s at the bottom of the list? Was thinking of that for my next action

Its a nice action but my reason for not liking it much is the cut out in the bolt face for the ejector is HUGE and the firing pin clearance is a bit sloppy. So if I run it on the hot side, I get firing pin/primer flow and big square imprints on the case head. On some of the higher pressure cartridge's (i.e. above 60 ksi) I get ejector marks before I think I should and do in other rifles. I haven't pierced a primer in it in over 3,000 rounds but they all look pretty ragged if I get above 56ksi or so and I do not think the the FP can be bushed.

 

[mike a]

Its a nice action but my reason for not liking it much is the cut out in the bolt face for the ejector is HUGE and the firing pin clearance is a bit sloppy. So if I run it on the hot side, I get firing pin/primer flow and big square imprints on the case head. On some of the higher pressure cartridge's (i.e. above 60 ksi) I get ejector marks before I think I should and do in other rifles. I haven't pierced a primer in it in over 3,000 rounds but they all look pretty ragged if I get above 56ksi or so and I do not think the the FP can be bushed.

I agree with you on the ejector mark. It comes to early and before pressure. My firing pins seem good. I have an Origin, a TL3 repeater and just bought a TL3 single shot. The Bighorns just have many features that I like. I live with the mark and wait for firm bolt lift to alert me to pressure. Mike

 

[Dgd6mm]

I can live with the mark from my Origin. My 6br barrel is on that action. I do like my Nucleus the best, so much I'm buying another.