CUSTOM ACTION DIFFERENCES

[Rick_W]

I am at a point in my life I would like to build a custom gun. Just because.

I would like to try a local/semi-local PRS competition when I get back home but I may not. I may never take it hunting. But it will see some range time.

I'm not asking what's the "best" because IMO that is subjective.

I plan to start with a 6.5 CM as I have a local range with 1000 yard lanes.

I want the ability to order a pre-fit shouldered barrel (no barrel nut, I do have Savages) and change it out myself if/when I need to.

I haven't decided on a stock or chassis but whichever I choose, I will want to use AICS style mags. I may be able to pick up a Bergara HMR stock with detachable bottom metal for a good price.

I haven’t decided on push-feed or control-round feed. I don’t know if it makes a difference in competition, but it won’t for range plinking.

In no particular order, I'm looking at the following:
Defiance Deviant/Ruckus/Tenacity
Terminus Zeus/Apollo
Seekins Havak
Impact 737R
Bighorn TL3/Origin

I don't know what makes one of these actions different from the other or more desirable for one situation than another.

Does recoil lug thickness make a difference in stock selection?

Also, I think I understand that a trigger hanger makes replacing a trigger easier/more convenient. Does the use of the trigger hanger make an impact/difference in stock selection?

Defiance, it seems, recommends against pre-fit barrels unless ordered through a reputable gunsmith. Defiance also states the Rebel and various Deviant actions "may be made to easily replace the Remington 700".

 

[linebaugh]

Pick an action you like the best. I have 4 different actions now and I like them all the best. lol
I have handled, built and/or shot every action on your list except.the Seekins and they are all good. If you dont plan to shoot a ton I would not waste to much effort on finding pre-fit compatible actions.

Now what I really got on here to address. If you plan to shoot PRS/NRL matches do yourself a favor and go 6 Creed or an even smaller case capacity 6mm. The 6mm dominates the percentage of bores on any given PRS/NRL event to the tune of probably 90% IME. The reason behind this is you need to reduce recoil to see impacts and trace. A 6.5 can for sure be competitive but it probably will not put you in a good starting position.
Next advice is spend as much on glass as you can afford. Glass makes the game.

Go watch some matches. There will be enough guns and bling there to make your head spin and most shooters are awesome people who will let you play with their toys. A word of caution... if you go to a match you will be addicted.

 

[gtl1946]

In the long run why not look for a used rifle that has close to the options you have in mind???

 

[Rick_W]

Pick an action you like the best. I have 4 different actions now and I like them all the best. lol
I have handled, built and/or shot every action on your list except.the Seekins and they are all good. If you dont plan to shoot a ton I would not waste to much effort on finding pre-fit compatible actions.

Now what I really got on here to address. If you plan to shoot PRS/NRL matches do yourself a favor and go 6 Creed or an even smaller case capacity 6mm. The 6mm dominates the percentage of bores on any given PRS/NRL event to the tune of probably 90% IME. The reason behind this is you need to reduce recoil to see impacts and trace. A 6.5 can for sure be competitive but it probably will not put you in a good starting position.
Next advice is spend as much on glass as you can afford. Glass makes the game.

Go watch some matches. There will be enough guns and bling there to make your head spin and most shooters are awesome people who will let you play with their toys. A word of caution... if you go to a match you will be addicted.

I looked at F-Class when that was starting up but I have a hard time with shooting paper targets off a bench or prone for very many shots.

I actually have a problem shooting at paper targets for very long.

The 6mm CM was on my short list and came in second. But, that's also the reason I wanted to be able to purchase pref-fit barrels.

I hope to be able to get to a match when I get back home. I've only competed in Cowboy Action Shooting for the past 10 years. I'm not the fastest and it's not precision, but I thoroughly enjoy it. And so does my wife, so it's all good.

 

[Rick_W]

In the long run why not look for a used rifle that has close to the options you have in mind???

I'm overseas and will be for a little while yet.

 

[chromatica]

I built a custom rifle using the Origin action and I'm happy with it. I decided to go with the barrel nut configuration for my 260 Remington but I don't have to stay with that configuration. You can order shouldered prefits for the Origin action from outfits like Patriot Valley Arms and TS Customs.

 

[Rick_W]

I built a custom rifle using the Origin action and I'm happy with it. I decided to go with the barrel nut configuration for my 260 Remington but I don't have to stay with that configuration. You can order shouldered prefits for the Origin action from outfits like Patriot Valley Arms and TS Customs.

Thank you. The Origin and the Apollo are my top choices, but that is based on price alone as I'm still trying to learn about the features and compatibility.

Compatibility is the big reason I am not looking at Savage. New and used aftermarket stuff is available everywhere for Remington compatible actions at much less cost.

 

[South Paw Sammy]

Have you looked into MasterPiece Arms?
The have a lot of the things it seems your looking for.

 

[Dgd6mm]

Rick, I have a Origin which I got first. I then purchased a Nucleus from ARC. I like both ,but prefer the Nucleus. Do some research on these two if you'd like, it will be worth your time. Ted's videos were he describes the action as being robust is spot on.

 

[Rick_W]

Rick, I have a Origin which I got first. I then purchased a Nucleus from ARC. I like both ,but prefer the Nucleus. Do some research on these two if you'd like, it will be worth your time. Ted's videos were he describes the action as being robust is spot on.

I actually met Ted and handled the Mausingfield action at SHOT several years ago. That action was very smooth. With that said, the actions on almost all of the guns I handled were smoother than factory - that happens when they're cycled thousands upon thousands of times.

My experience with bolt action rifles has been a Savage, a Ruger and a Remington. I am more comfortable with the bolt throws of the Savage and Ruger than that of the Remington.

Does your Nucleus setup use a barrel nut/Remage barrels?

I don't guess I'm totally against barrel nuts but was thinking that buying prefit barrels for a custom action might be better/more accurate. Maybe I'm wrong in that thought.

I've spent most of today reading and watching videos trying to learn what stuff means.

Accepts BDL bottom metal or does not accept BDL bottom metal: what's the difference and why would you want one over the other? I'm trying to get a Bergara HMR stock with bottom metal - is that going to limit the actions I should looks at? Along the same lines, will that choice then affect chassis selection if I choose to go that route in the future?

AI vs AW style magazines: again, what's the difference and why would you want one over the other?

Integral recoil lug or dual-pinned - is one method "better" than the other?

Integral rail or pinned & screwed - again, is one method "better" than the other?

Appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts. I'm sure these questions have been asked many times and I'll eventually stumble over the answers.

 

[Dgd6mm]

Rick, my barrel that is on my Nucleus is a Kreiger that Dave Bruno chambered for me. It is nutted, and the 3rd nutted barrel he has done. I have a 4th that is shouldered on a Lawton action. The Nucleus and Origin are Savage threads and both are nutted. The Origin sports a 6br Criterion barrel. Cut, buttoned, shouldered, nutted, I do not believe I can shoot the difference. I don't shoot Benchrest, I'm a FTR shooter, and dabble in PRS. Both these actions and the others you mention are Remington footprint. The Bergara is also Remington. The other things you mentioned are not going to make a difference in accuracy. There are plenty of shops spinning up quality shouldered or nutted barrels for the Nucleus and Origin. Take a look at the Trigger Tech triggers, no hangers, complete drop ins. They are jam up. Search around and look at places like Bugholes, Straight Jacket and others. They will be glad to spin you up a barrel or two, shouldered if that is your preference and they don't need your action if you go with one of these two. There may be others. This is the new trend.

Don Dunlap

 

[357Mag]

Rick -

Howdy !

As regards your questions about barrel nuts and recoil lugs.....

Ask yourself if you might be a good candidate for a rifle that is " change barrel " easily?
The recoil lug can be " pinned " to the action. One idea of that being you can use a barrel vise and action wrench to swap out the barrels.
After all.... your $$$ for a top tier action will result in a rifle you'll likely hand on to. My custom Wichita action has endured, while my rifle's stocks have seen evolving changes over the years, as has my trigger choice; and of course multiple barrel swap outs. Change barrel capability brings
you options.

For a quick read, PACNOR's barrel website lists a whole host of actions that the make " pre-fits " for. I believe this includes barrel nut compatible barrels. And while they had a fire some time back, they have had some time to recouperate from that. I listed them as an example. There's no shortage of vendors that offer pre-fits, and that includes those that provide quality products.

A trigger hanger set-up could be readily accomodated by a good riflesmith. Same thing goes for recoil lug thickness, IMHO.


With regards,
357Mag

 

[marazzi59]

Please do yourself a favor and check out wolf prescion. They build on BAT actions and there barrel work is next level to say the least. Also they have an awesome podcast. Even if you don't go with them you will at a minimum learn something, I promise.

 

[marazzi59]

Also Bruce the owner of BAT is one hell of a guy and the tolerances he holds on his actions are incredible.(+/-.0002")

 

[2moreclicks]

Another to consider is the kelblys atlas it’s butter smooth and there tolerances are second to none

only thing is if your going to be running the bolt hard you need to get there heavy duty bolt stop

 

[mike a]

I say its the nut behind the trigger not the nut on the barrel. I could be wrong. Bighorn Origin Shilen Stainless Select Match. Atlas bipod. Oh and 6BR ROCKS!!!

 

[69mach]

I’m a big fan of the defiance deviant and newer ruckus actions. Although I have 2 deviants I’d probably buy a ruckus now since you can get prefits for them, that is if I’m going to buy defiance. I like the integrated 20 moa scope base and recoil lug. Also their customer service is second to none. They answer the phone every time.
A bat vr or tactical Or a Borden action would also be a great choice of actions. I love my bats. I say buy one and cry once. Bighorn is also nice. I like the idea of just switching bolt heads instead of entire bolts to get a diff bolt face diameter. Taken care of they will all outlast you and whoever you will it too.

 

[kindabitey]

The biggest plus to most all of the actions the OP listed, is the ability to buy pre-fit barrels from most any reputable smith. I'm currently using an Impact 737 with a
pre-fit from Stuteville. It was as easy as spin the old one off, spin the new one on, and go shoot.

 

[Rick_W]

I have also started looking at the BAT actions and Wolf Precision. Until now thought they were only benchrest.

Watching a lot of PRS/NRL videos on you tube I see a lot of people having issues with bolt manipulation. Even if I can't compete talent-wise with the best shooters, I don't want to fight my equipment.

 

[Delfuego]

Bighorn TL3, Kelbly's, Impact, Lone Peak are all good actions and you can find shouldered pre-fits easily. The Bighorn Origin will require the Hunt Long Range recoil lug to take TL3 pre-fits. BAT, Barnard, Borden are all getting in the PMS game. But I would stick with companies that have been doing it for a while. Super tight tolerances will work against you in the dirt and dust.

As far as bolt manipulation, there are a lot of beginners in the game . Also the actions/triggers are not the same as benchrest, they are field guns. Lastly, if you are balancing on one foot hanging off a wobbly barricade, you're gonna have trouble cycling any action smoothly. Lone Peak has probably the lightest smoothest bolt lift of the ones I listed. Others can be tweaked (timed triggers/etc) to help. Magazines and feeding are a big, big deal too.