Crooked chambers/ uneven lands

[LVLAaron]

Isn't it funny... 10 years ago when we started talking about pre-fit barrels, most everyone on this forum was talking about how they're all done on CNC machines and not hand fit. And that couldn't be as good.

Now it seems the observations have flipped upside down.

To see the other side of that... 10 years ago was there an abundance of highly repeatable actions?

 

[DaveTooley]

You are doing six barrels a day?

If I could sell 6 barrels a day I would buy a CNC machine. Or two.

You made my point. CNC isn't for everyone. It's no better for the basics than a manual machine but there comes a point when it's necessary either from a time stand point or volume. I know some smiths that got set up with CNC mostly to free up time for other work not to chamber more barrels.

 

[urbanrifleman]

You made my point. CNC isn't for everyone. It's no better for the basics than a manual machine but there comes a point when it's necessary either from a time stand point or volume. I know some smiths that got set up with CNC mostly to free up time for other work not to chamber more barrels.

If I mean being too nosy let me know but do you chamber six barrels a day? Like 30 barrels a week?

 

[urbanrifleman]

To see the other side of that... 10 years ago was there an abundance of highly repeatable actions?

Why would that make any difference? The post here are saying that CNC threads are superior to manual threads. Why would the action matter?

Are you talking about headspace?

 

[Bronsin]

Dial it in? Like through the headstock?

You've seen this operation?

How does the reamer chips get cleared? Is there a pilot on the reamer?

The chamber would be cut with specially ground boring bars. You can do it with a manual machine too. As long as the Bore was indicated on center of the spindle, the boring bar will cut the most concentric hole.

 

[mike mccormick]

Why would that make any difference? The post here are saying that CNC threads are superior to manual threads. Why would the action matter?

Are you talking about headspace?

You are working with a program, which runs the operations to the same dimensions every time. If the actions have variances, at least on a shouldered barrel, the repeatability of the process is pointless. Then it would have to be done to fit a specific unit. On nut type barrels, this is less of a factor

 

[DShortt]

I've been following this thread and I don't recall anyone saying CNC is superior to manual methods. Faster once the initial set-up is made for repeated runs of the same job is all I recall. I personally think the trouble with CNC production is quality checks sometimes aren't made often enough. Things can shift and tools wear. If you run a bunch of parts and don't monitor the work the possibility for mistakes increases.

 

[DaveTooley]

If I mean being too nosy let me know but do you chamber six barrels a day? Like 30 barrels a week?

Not every week because I did other things besides just chamber and thread. When I was working on barrels 30-40 a week was standard fare. Chamber for two days, thread muzzles for a day, Cerakote one day, pack and ship one day. There were several years I did 600+ barrels. I just got in my single largest barrel job. 1,000 lbs of barrels.

 

[urbanrifleman]

You are working with a program, which runs the operations to the same dimensions every time. If the actions have variances, at least on a shouldered barrel, the repeatability of the process is pointless. Then it would have to be done to fit a specific unit. On nut type barrels, this is less of a factor

But we're not talking about the head space chamber depth. We're talking about the quality of the threads and the cut of the tenon. I think that it's been established that most of the people are running the reamer in by hand. So headspace is actually being done by hand.

I think my point is that it's only been a very short period of time where all of a sudden CNC is now the cool thing where only a few years ago the cool thing was to have it handmade

My take on it is that more people have gotten CNC machines so that has become the cool thing

And just to be clear I wasn't talking about the chamber depth I was talking about cutting threads.

 

[SKWERLZ]

As with everything, it's not the process that matters but the attention to detail and the quality checks.

I do my own not because I think I'm better at it but because I can do it to a standard that meets or exceeds my needs and because I enjoy doing my own work. It's just that simple for me.

Same
I really enjoy it and that they shoot pretty damn well.
And it’s a nice learning process.

 

[SKWERLZ]

To see the other side of that... 10 years ago was there an abundance of highly repeatable actions?

Valid point

 

[urbanrifleman]

Not every week because I did other things besides just chamber and thread. When I was working on barrels 30-40 a week was standard fare. Chamber for two days, thread muzzles for a day, Cerakote one day, pack and ship one day. There were several years I did 600+ barrels. I just got in my single largest barrel job. 1,000 lbs of barrels.

I'm not sure what you charge to do those barrels but at gunsmith rates that be more than $300,000 a year in labor.

 

[DShortt]

And that would be fantastic if the man had no overhead.

Com'on. You know better that this. What the heck is your deal?

Never met a rich gunsmith in my life.

 

[LVLAaron]

1000lbs... m24 profile is about 6 pounds... That's where all the barrels are going!

 

[urbanrifleman]

And that would be fantastic if the man had no overhead.

Com'on. You know better that this. What the heck is your deal?

Never met a rich gunsmith in my life.

What do you mean? You take the number of barrels and you multiply it times what you charge for a barrel and it's that much. Simple math.

I didn't say anything controversial. If a person charged $250 a barrel and there were 1,500 barrels a year (30 a week) that would be $375,000 a year in labor paid by the customer.

 

[DShortt]

You're making plans to build a shop based on another thread you started. If you don't understand what I mean by overhead you will if you do that.

You carry any liability insurance? Got an attorney on retainer? Don't think you need either one? Might find out otherwise

 

[AccelR8]

I think my point is that it's only been a very short period of time where all of a sudden CNC is now the cool thing where only a few years ago the cool thing was to have it handmade

My take on it is that more people have gotten CNC machines so that has become the cool thing

Twenty years ago I was a knife maker. That was just about the transition time when before that, everything had to be hand made to be any good. Machine made was cheating. After that, CNC was the only way to fly. Maybe that's an over simplification, and I don't know where it stands today. I've been out of it for a while.

 

[Edd]

What do you mean? You take the number of barrels and you multiply it times what you charge for a barrel and it's that much. Simple math.

I didn't say anything controversial. If a person charged $250 a barrel and there were 1,500 barrels a year (30 a week) that would be $375,000 a year in labor paid by the customer.

$250 per barrel, does Dave Tooley work that cheap?

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Not sure why all this stuff seems to have come up lately. But I have just got to say it. You see all these ridiculous numbers on here, then you see the threads complaining about no stocks and long waits and it will only get worse. All this demand and no one to fill it? When there is a lucrative business people step in and fill the void. Dont listen to 99% of the guys posting about what it takes to run a business or what you have to do in a day. They have no clue. I dont think I know a single custom rifle smith that does it full time with no other source of income. No pension, no inheritance, no retirement, wife with a good job, ext.

 

[Dgd6mm]

Why the hell do any of you want to be gunsmith's?