Creedmoor Sports ".01gr." Scale...Strain Gage

[F Class John]

Review coming soon!

 

[RegionRat]

Awesome! Looking forward to your review John!
They ship it with several check weights, do you need/want any more?

 

[Rocketvapor]

Haven't seen a full set of specifications. Maybe in the manual you received?
I expect a well thought out review, unlike so many reviews and videos.
At least the cal weights supplied are adequate unlike many cheaper scales.
I have to comment on one I just read somewhere on this scale.
Electric heater placed at the reloader's feet caused it to drift.
DUH
Temperature stabilization is more than having the room at one temperature.
It's having the temperature the same above, below, to the left, and right,
bench temperature and air temperature.
Temperature gradients will travel.
Anyway, tagging this to see your review.

 

[F Class John]

Awesome! Looking forward to your review John!
They ship it with several check weights, do you need/want any more?

I'm good but thank you. The system (instructions) state that you should only calibrate it based on the three included weights. There's a 2g, 10g and 50g weight. It's a lot like the Chargemasters where you do one weight, then the next and the next in the calibration process.

 

[RegionRat]

I'm good but thank you. The system (instructions) state that you should only calibrate it based on the three included weights. There's a 2g, 10g and 50g weight. It's a lot like the Chargemasters where you do one weight, then the next and the next in the calibration process.

When I meant "more" was for a more thorough linearity and uncertainty test at points in between and below those intervals used in their calibration. But no worries, you can always use unreferenced weights made up of whatever you have that is handy.

 

[F Class John]

When I meant "more" was for a more thorough linearity and uncertainty test at points in between and below those intervals used in their calibration. But no worries, you can always use unreferenced weights made up of whatever you have that is handy.

oh ok, I'm sorry I misunderstood. I really appreciate the generosity and will let you know if I need them.

 

[Ned Ludd]

Has anyone ever proved that weighing powder to this level makes a difference on paper or in the numbers? I've weighed to this level but never saw a difference. Perhaps I missed something

0.01 gr ~ 0.0007 g (= 0.7 mg, corrected typo)

That's equivalent to one corporal (i.e. one half kernel ) of Varget. Charge weight variance at that level in a typical rifle cartridge will translate to approximately 1 fps velocity variance. I don't know of a single commonly-used chronograph than can even approach that level of precision. In other words, if you're already weighing powder to the nearest 0.1 gr, weighing powder to a ten-fold finer increment of 0.01 gr is not going to have a huge and obvious effect in terms of generating smaller ES/SD. It simply isn't. I know this because I routinely weigh charges to that level of accuracy/precision using a very expensive Mettler Toledo magnetic force restoration analytical balance. Somewhat as a sanity check, I will on occasion purposely weigh charges to a much less precise increment (i.e. 0.1 gr). It makes no difference whatsoever in my ES/SD values, because charge weight variance was never the limiting source of error in terms of the ES/SD of my loads to begin with.

Having said that, I will continue to weigh powder to +/- one corporal. Why? Because I can. And because when you select a working tolerance for some step in the reloading process that is as overkill, as is weighing charges to the half kernel, you have effectively removed that step as a variable in the process. Thus, I never, ever, ever have to worry about having unacceptable charge weight variance when I'm behind the rifle in a match. So I have no issues at all with someone having the desire to weigh powder to +/- 0.01 gr precision. Doing so effectively takes me little more time than it would to weigh powder to a much coarser increment.

Along this line of thinking, I am pleased to see Creedmoor taking an interest in providing better powder weight precision/accuracy to the reloading community at a reasonable cost. I hope their TRX-925 scale lives up to everyone's expectations, although I have some reservations about whether it will in practice. First off, I have yet to see a strain gauge type scale that would reliably hold zero (tare). They claim to have solved this issue using an "internal algorithm". Second, the scale is being marketed as "making this scale the only reloading scale that offers true +/-.01 grain accuracy" >>> their words, not mine. From what I can tell without having the actual specs in hand, this unit has "readability" of 0.01 gr, which is not at all the same as being accurate to +/- 0.01 gr. Readability is not the same as accuracy or precision. Most high end analytical balances with readability to 0.1 mg will have an accuracy of about two to three times the readability value, or about 0.2 to 0.3 mg, depending on the unit. So my best guess from the limited information is that this unit will likely have an accuracy somewhere in the +/- 0.02 to 0.03 gr range, if their information regarding readability is correct.

There are good reasons that reputable laboratory magnetic force restoration analytical balances cost as much as $1200-$1500, or more. Until now, if you wanted a laboratory MFR analytical balance to weigh powder, one of the most reasonably priced units available has been the Sartorius Entris 64, which is a very, very fine analytical balance. However, the current version of the Entris 64 has a price tag of around $1800. I am skeptical that a strain gauge-type scale costing about 1/5 the price will be able to keep pace with an Entris. Nonetheless, I'll be looking forward to hearing user's reviews of this unit and keep an open mind.

 

[Rocketvapor]

Couple takeaways from your post Ned,
1mg=0.015gn
Take one of the variables in reloading, and make it absolutely insignificant.
End result is seldom based on scale readability only, waiting on full specifications.
I hope Creedmoor isn't risking credibility backing this model.
I too am looking forward to reviews that are sure to follow on YouTube and hope that the reviewer knows what he is doing.

Space heater under the bench causing drift. Give me a break

 

[TheCZKid]

When loading for very small cartridges, plus/minus of .1 grain (for a total of .2 grains total possible variance) is too much swing. A couple tenths can push a 17 Hornet into the danger zone.

I purchased the A&D EJ-54D2 scale for my 17 Hornet loading, before that my RCBS Chargemaster 1500 was fine for .223 and 20P loads, but a difference of .1 grains on a 17 Hornet is about 60 fps, and my SD's and accuracy were not good enough.
As far as linking to an auto-trickler, mine won't, doesn't look like the Creedmoor one does either. I use a Dandy Trickler, and it works fine for me, down to .005 grain accuracy, but it takes me about 1 hour to load 50 rounds... I know they are all 12.600 grains of CFE BLK! And worth it to me accuracy wise.

 

[Rocketvapor]

Is the A&D EJ-54D2 dual range scale a force balance or load cell scale?
Seems you can find it at about the same price as the Creedmoor.

 

[TheCZKid]

Is the A&D EJ-54D2 dual range scale a force balance or load cell scale?
Seems you can find it at about the same price as the Creedmoor.

From what I read, it's a strain gauge based scale, and it settles slower than the FX-120i, not sure how it compares to the Creedmoor though.

 

[F Class John]

FWIW, almost 24hrs and zero drift so far...even my A&D can't always say that. More testing to go before I do the video but thought I'd give a quick update.

 

[Rocketvapor]

John,
Is that zero drift @ Zero?
Could you show drift with a non-zero value in your video?
Auto Zero may be tracking drift.

 

[F Class John]

John,
Is that zero drift @ Zero?
Could you show drift with a non-zero value in your video?
Auto Zero may be tracking drift.

That's a 50g weight on the scale then zeroed. I'm also going to put the 50g weight on in a couple days and let it sit at 50g and see if it drifts.

 

[Rocketvapor]

It may be super stable. That would be nice.
I started a thread a while back on Fake Zero.
Zero, add 10 gram, let it sit with 10.000 displayed.
Fake zero, scale doesn't get the chance to Auto Zero.
Would like to know if "Auto Zero" is hiding zero drift.
Load cell might 'creep' @ 50 grams.
Sorry for butting in

 

[WEL]

Curious to see how it does with trickling powder. The same algorithms that prevent drift can make it hard to register when trickling powder.

 

[Straightshooter1]

Curious to see how it does with trickling powder. The same algorithms that prevent drift can make it hard to register when trickling powder.

Maybe this YouTube review by Ultimate Reloader helps answer this:

 

[JFrank]

That's a 50g weight on the scale then zeroed. I'm also going to put the 50g weight on in a couple days and let it sit at 50g and see if it drifts.

How’s the scale review coming along John ?

 

[6bra1k]

I purchased the A&D EJ-54D2 scale for my 17 Hornet loading, before that my RCBS Chargemaster 1500 was fine for .223 and 20P loads, but a difference of .1 grains on a 17 Hornet is about 60 fps, and my SD's and accuracy were not good enough.
As far as linking to an auto-trickler, mine won't, doesn't look like the Creedmoor one does either. I use a Dandy Trickler, and it works fine for me, down to .005 grain accuracy, but it takes me about 1 hour to load 50 rounds... I know they are all 12.600 grains of CFE BLK! And worth it to me accuracy wise.
View attachment 1309617

we have had this discussion.
that scale will DISPLAY three places 0.000,
but the ACCURACY is 0.02 GRAIN per the MANUFACTURES usa liturature

 

[Rocketvapor]

I would like to see a good review on the Creedmoor scale before making a decision.
I don't have an issue using grams for a scale with native gram mode, or grains with a scale that has a native grain mode. The F1 class weights supplied with the Creedmore, 2grams (+/- 0.12mg), 10 grams (+/-0.2mg) and 50 grams (+/- 0.3mg) seem adequate but I have my own.

The EJ-54D2 Does Not come with a calibration weight per a USA seller that has them in stock.
It's probably the better Japanese model
If you add the +/-2 units repeatability and 3 units of linearity, in gram mode, that's a total of 5 units.
That's a total of a mg (0.015gn) on the low range.
@TheCZKid
Does anyone know if you can calibrate the 22g low range or do you have to calibrate at 50g and hope the low range is good? Guess check weights will be needed.