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Creedmoor Sports ".01gr." Scale...Strain Gage

I've been waiting for somebody to run some independent testing on the new design, but it has only been around a short time.

If I had not just given some other scales away recently, I would have grabbed one of these just for the sake of using one as a Guinea Pig. These came out around the beginning of December and I don't need yet another one here these days....

One thing they offer with it that is on point, is the extra check weights at intermediate values. Nice touch.

..." Creedmoor Sports TRX-925 comes standard with three F-1 class calibration weights (2g, 10g 50g). These precision grade weights are machined from stainless steel, and each come in its own protective storage case. The inclusion of the three weights and the multi-point calibration process developed by our reloading team allow each reloader to calibrate at their normal range of operation. "...

Somebody will need to redesign the wind break lid so it will be easy to trickle in the field. The trickle tube will have to drop through that hole and reach a long way over the top to get there. Seems like not many of the scale designers have worked while at the range... YMMV

Happy New Year!
 
SeabeeKen said:
Has anyone ever proved that weighing powder to this level makes a difference on paper or in the numbers? I've weighed to this level but never saw a difference. Perhaps I missed something
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Boy is that a loaded question.

I think this kind of scale accuracy falls into the "if it's a variable that I can control using better methods and equipment, I'm going to control it and I don't need to prove the difference on paper". This kind of mindset is perfectly reasonable for top long range competitors. Justified or not does not matter, because overkill does not exist and the very best results come from controlling every single variable in the system as much as possible. Apply that perfectionism to all of the variables and the results will start to show on target. Some have proven powder charge weight accuracy to be a measurable performance difference - sometimes - in some conditions. For true competitors, any data indicating an improvement, ever, is ample justification.

But if this is a significant investment for you, and you're not going to continue down the line of your loading process to maximize perfection at every step of the way, going from a .1gr scale a .01gr scale is likely not going to help. Likewise if you're shooting 30BR or 6PPC in short range benchrest, where winning tune windows are much larger than .01 grains.

Another factor in accurate charges is the weight of the kernels themselves, which range from .01 to .03 grains each. To get it to the .01 each time requires a perfect trickle and/or cutting kernels.

Another reality we can't control is the composition of the powder. How consistent is the powder from one charge to the next, from one loading session to another? We might want to believe that every 30.00 gr charge from a bottle of powder will burn identically - but manufacturing reality insists the answer there is 'no'.

For most everyone else, it's overkill. Like me. I dabble in long range and use a Sartorius Entris 64 with v3 autotrickler. To be honest, it probably hasn't improved my groups over my Chargemaster Lite, and if it has, it's only on the fringe use cases. I get 95% of my charges within +/- .02gr because I don't compete and it's still 5x better than my CML. I'm not selling it because I like this system better than my CML but if I needed cash it would go with very little regret.

If you're truly curious, I suggest you take your existing powder weighing system (let's say .1 gr accurate Chargemaster) and purposely test the system. Make 20 rounds varying +/- .1 gr and 20 rounds varying by +/- .2 gr. If those two groups perform differently, then your situation *may* improve with more accurate charges. If those two groups perform the same, then your situation definitely won't improve with more accurate charges. Best of all, this experiment is cheap.

David
 
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SeabeeKen said:
Has anyone ever proved that weighing powder to this level makes a difference on paper or in the numbers? I've weighed to this level but never saw a difference. Perhaps I missed something
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I think Brand at Prometheus along with others will argue that point.
 
Hmm, a 223 at 600+ yards with ES under 10 seems reason enough for the existence of scales in this resolution. I'll await the statisticians reports before I purchase though.

Long range shooting seems to be a bit more critical than short range BR; though I'm willing to be swayed that short range needs this accuracy too.
 
While I have tested this in several of my rifles, I never saw a difference on paper. I also shoot 20VT and 22 Hornet and both shoot tight groups with the 20VT under .1" and both weighed with my CML. I was just curious if the difference in resolution had been tested on paper by most shooters. I still use my scale to periodically check my beam and CML. Thanks.
 
With the FX120i I can measure down to a single kernel of most powders. I believe the FX measures down to .02 grains. Once you get to this level with most powders you would have to start cutting kernels in half to get an exact weight. This doesn't make sense since it would change the burn rate.
I really like Creedmore sports and order from them frequently. I went to their web sight and looked up this scale.
This TRX scale uses a strain gauge as opposed to magnetic force restoration in the FX120i. There is a big difference between how these two different types of scales respond. If you don't believe me there are a number of videos on you tube that demonstrate this. Magnetic force restoration scales simply have a better response and tend to drift less. The last digit of precision is not the only factor that makes a scale good for reloading. The other question I have is will the new TRX work with an autotrickler. I like to spend as little time reloading as possible.
Reloading equipment has gotten to the point where it has become a huge rabbit hole. My experience tells me that what makes reloaded ammo accurate is how well the ammo is in tune with the rifle. Ammo with charge weight measured to .1 gn that is in tune with the rifle will always shoot better than ammo with charge weight measured to .01 that isn't in tune. I try to be as consistent as possible when I reload but I have found that tuning the load and keeping it in tune is where the accuracy is at.
 
The RCBS matchmaster doesn't use a Magnetic force restoration and has similar performance. It might not be as fast but it's almost as accurate for a couple hundred dollars less. That's the selling point I believe.
 
One the one hand many match winners believe in the super accurate scales and swear by the results, on the other hand these same people tend to be the best and most meticulous reloaders, wind readers and rifle shooters. I have yet to see anything proven that shows that its the super precision loads that make the difference. In fact Short range BR may prove it doesn't matter but here is a big difference in 100yds and distances way beyond 1000yds. someone prove it.
 
I shoot mid range Ftr using a 223. All charges dispensed by a Charge Master are certified on a Bald Eagle and 90% are within +/- 0.05gr, and those which are off typically are visibly due to a poor trickling incident or me bumping the bench. Charge uniformity is highly dependent upon good trickling unless you want to spend excessive time manually removing and adding powder kernels with those more resolute scales.
 
Q
SeabeeKen said:
Has anyone ever proved that weighing powder to this level makes a difference on paper or in the numbers? I've weighed to this level but never saw a difference. Perhaps I missed something
Click to expand...
I know that since I’ve been paying more attention to things like this my groups have gotten better. i don’t really see a downside to having the extra little bit of resolution as long as I’m gaining consistency along with it.
At the end of the day long range shooting is a tuners game.
Looking at this scale, I wouldn’t mind seeing the windscreen a little taller with a hole pre drilled but certainly not a dealbreaker.
 
The downside to this device is it isn't compatible with the AutoTrickler. The AT plugs into the FX-120i or Sartorius and you can load 80 rounds in 40 min. or better. I use the V3 AT with 2 shot glass powder cups
(thank you F-Class John for that hack).
 
next time
SeabeeKen said:
Has anyone ever proved that weighing powder to this level makes a difference on paper or in the numbers? I've weighed to this level but never saw a difference. Perhaps I missed something
Click to expand...
As I posted on another thread, when discussing scales and differences of .01 gns one would think no one here has ever done a ladder tests and looked for velocity flat spots. I am just an ameaeur at this stuff but I have yet to see a load test where the velocity curve was linear and increased per .01 grain of powder

That said, when doing a load testng I do like to get the resolution as fine as possible and repeatable so that I know that the five rounds in the 26.7 gn test node are all 26.7 gns not 26.6, 26.8, 27.7, 26.6 and 26.7
 
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Prose said:
The RCBS matchmaster doesn't use a Magnetic force restoration and has similar performance. It might not be as fast but it's almost as accurate for a couple hundred dollars less. That's the selling point I believe.
Click to expand...
The matchmaster isn't in the same league as this scale heck it's not in the same league as the Fx120i
 
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