Cream of Wheat forming question

[Ackman]

I am not willing to burn up 200 rounds of good barrel life on a competition barrel that may only last 1000 rounds and one season. That is what forming with bullets does for my 6 BRA.

Finding a competitive and well-tuned load that would allow taking unfired cases to a match would be an exercise in futility. Chances are that by the time the load was tuned to my satisfaction I wouldn't have enough unfired cases to cover the match, so I would also need a tuned load for the fired cases. It's much better to use the exceedingly simple and reliable 20 grains of Bullseye and 1/8 sheet of TP for when a fireforming barrel is not available.

In a hunting rifle that needs only 50-100 cases and won't shoot 1000 rounds in 20 years, it doesn't matter.

I've read many accounts of competitive shooters shooting in matches with bullets heavily jammed to (fire)form different versions of the 6BR case. Shortly I'll be with a 6BRA and 6BRX, probably doing the same thing.

 

[bozo699]

I've read many accounts of competitive shooters shooting in matches with bullets heavily jammed to (fire)form different versions of the 6BR case. Shortly I'll be with a 6BRA and 6BRX, probably doing the same thing.

I have not seen anyone doing that at 1000 yards and definitely no one winning doing it. By the time I load for three guns drive for 4 hours rent a motel for two nights eating and entrance fees I play to WIN!.... I don’t always win but I want to shoot as well as my gun and I possibly can. Not spending that kinda money to fireform cases. But to each there own I wish you the best of luck.
Wayne

 

[INTJ]

I've read many accounts of competitive shooters shooting in matches with bullets heavily jammed to (fire)form different versions of the 6BR case. Shortly I'll be with a 6BRA and 6BRX, probably doing the same thing.

I have also been in LR BR matches where guys have done that. They are matches they don't really care about and they don't do too well. That is fine because their primary purpose at those matches is getting cases fireformed for matches they do care about.

When it comes to a non AI case in a tight competition chamber, I have had good results using unfired brass in a match, but the case is very close to what a resized case would be anyway.

Each to his own. I have found the best method for me and will keep using it.

 

[Ackman]

I have not seen anyone doing that at 1000 yards and definitely no one winning doing it. By the time I load for three guns drive for 4 hours rent a motel for two nights eating and entrance fees I play to WIN!.... I don’t always win but I want to shoot as well as my gun and I possibly can. Not spending that kinda money to fireform cases. But to each there own I wish you the best of luck.
Wayne

I don't plan to be competing, don't care about that. My rifles are all varmint guns.

 

[Ccrider]

How you know?
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Assuming that 220 Russian needed to be filled to the base of neck with Clay’s pistol powder to fireform using modeler’s clay as the filler. Blew the cases out at the base too far to chamber properly without first using small base die.

 

[bozo699]

I don't plan to be competing, don't care about that. My rifles are all varmint guns.

I completely understand now
Wayne

 

[Brians356]

Assuming that 220 Russian needed to be filled to the base of neck with Clay’s pistol powder to fireform using modeler’s clay as the filler. Blew the cases out at the base too far to chamber properly without first using small base die.

Yikes! That's a lotta fast powder. Glad you weren't injured (apparently).
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[INTJ]

I don't plan to be competing, don't care about that. My rifles are all varmint guns.

That is what I have been getting at. I think most of us trying to limit bullets in our barrel are match shooters who need extreme accuracy, and that doesn't last as long hunting required accuracy, even for varmints.

 

[Brians356]

I'd much rather put bullets down a barrel and be shooting things than wasting primers, powder, and time then putting crap down the barrel that won't shoot anything, many times getting an incompletely formed case, then later having to clean crap out of the barrel.

Understandable if you're shooting varmints only, I'd probably be doing it your way, too.

But WRT wasted components and time, a 20% load of pistol powder is relatively cheap, as are primers. The time required to fully fireform primed cases with just the powder, dumped into the case in the field using a Lee dipper, is about 30 seconds each. The easiest fouling of all to clean out of a bore is simple powder fouling. Yes, you do have to prime the cases one extra time, but that's much easier and faster than also weighing and dropping powder, and seating bullets.
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[Brians356]

That is what I have been getting at. I think most of us trying to limit bullets in our barrel are match shooters who need extreme accuracy, and that doesn't last as long hunting required accuracy, even for varmints.

If you're shooting picket pin ground squirrels from a couple hundred yards, accuracy comes handy. I shoot larger California ground squirrels on rock piles out to 400 yards, and that requires the best loads I can work up in really good rifles, plus some luck. If they're less than 200 yards out, I'm shocked if I miss. Then there's the chaps who snipe rockchucks from like 800 yards. Ask them about their accuracy requirements.
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[bozo699]

If you're shooting picket pin ground squirrels from a couple hundred yards, accuracy comes handy. I shoot larger California ground squirrels on rock piles out to 400 yards, and that requires the best loads I can work up in really good rifles, plus some luck. If they're less than 200 yards out, I'm shocked if I miss. Then there's the chaps who snipe rockchucks from like 800 yards. Ask them about their accuracy requirements.
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My favorite groundhog den just outside my loading room is 869 yards. But then I guess I’m pretty Lucy from my loading room I can find groundhogs from about 100 to over 1800 yards
Wayne

 

[INTJ]

If you're shooting picket pin ground squirrels from a couple hundred yards, accuracy comes handy. I shoot larger California ground squirrels on rock piles out to 400 yards, and that requires the best loads I can work up in really good rifles, plus some luck. If they're less than 200 yards out, I'm shocked if I miss. Then there's the chaps who snipe rockchucks from like 800 yards. Ask them about their accuracy requirements.
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Then those guys shouldn't burn up their barrel life by fireforming with bullets in their hunting barrel......

 

[Ackman]

A couple pieces of paper tacked. up in my reloading room since about '91. Bullets were not wasted. I've shot a whole ton of critters with loads as accurate as these, and got a perfectly formed case in the process.

 

[INTJ]

Yeah, you need something more like this for BR and you can't get there fireforming AI cases.

 

[Brians356]

My favorite groundhog den just outside my loading room is 869 yards. But then I guess I’m pretty Lucy from my loading room I can find groundhogs from about 100 to over 1800 yards
Wayne

Marmota flaviventris. Yellow-bellied Marmot, but "rockchuck" in your region (where I grew up.) Although there are proper Groundhogs (Marmota monax or Woodchuck) to be found in the far northeast corner of Washington state (and the tip of the Idaho panhandle.)

Say, better get the planting done up there. I see Asotin County just today registered their first confirmed case of you-know-what.
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[bozo699]

Marmota flaviventris. Yellow-bellied Marmot, but "rockchuck" in your region (where I grew up.) Although there are proper Groundhogs (Marmota monax or Woodchuck) to be found in the far northeast corner of Washington state (and the tip of the Idaho panhandle.)

Say, better get the planting done up there. I see Asotin County just today registered their first confirmed case of you-know-what.
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Yes to all the above we have them , I mostly have the marmots but do have some woodchucks. The local paper this morning said Asotin county was still zero on the
You know what I hope whoever has got it gets well.
Wayne

 

[Ackman]

Yeah, you need something more like this for BR and you can't get there fireforming AI cases.

View attachment 1168826

That's very good. Like I said, not interested in shooting BR or paper, just fur.

 

[bozo699]

A couple pieces of paper tacked. up in my reloading room since about '91. Bullets were not wasted. I've shot a whole ton of critters with loads as accurate as these, and got a perfectly formed case in the process.
View attachment 1168817

That is a extremely nice shooting varment rig!
I have a 6mm AI a .257 AI and a 22-250 AI I had a old friend of mine rebarrel a 700 sendero I wanted a 1:14 and he put on a 1:9 I never was happy the way it shot but yours would definitely put the scare on rockchucks
Wayne

 

[bozo699]

Yeah, you need something more like this for BR and you can't get there fireforming AI cases.

View attachment 1168826

Hey man what’s up with all the vertical!?....
I’m just kidding that’s nice!
Wayne

 

[INTJ]

That's very good. Like I said, not interested in shooting BR or paper, just fur.

I guess the end of this is different applications require different approaches. And it would be fun to shoot Marmots at 800 yds......