killed bout 40 2 years ago. prob 3 last year. didn't get out nearly as much but I still feel like I didn't see nearly as many. course I hunt the same 400 acres all the time.
coyote vs. ground hog
- Thread starter model 12 toby
- Start date
I am a lifelong groundhog hunter and noticed that 5 years have gone by since these early posts suggesting the damage that Coyotes could do to a gh population.
I just returned from what should have been a month long visit to Potter County, Pa, an area famous for 100 years as Groundhog Central. My emphasis was on open areas where shooting to 1000 yds was possible and 700, the norm. I drove the back roads (grace or dirt) up near the NY line and spoke with farmers at length. There were virtually NO hogs to be had in a large open area. Saw one circus squished in the road and one running near a wood pile. Apparently when a chuck wanders into the open areas, the scent trail remains and is picked up by the first Coyote crossing it, and the hunt begins,
There will continue to be small fields surrounded by woods that will offer targets near the woods as they go no further than necessary to get food, but the days of digging holes in the middle of a field are very threatened,
As a secondary concern, when the Coyote runs out of 8-12 lb easy to catch meals, what will they migrate too? Will they start to lose some of their numbers? Would love to find a scientific source to address this concern if anyone knows of it,
If others are still finding gh;s acting like they used to in large open areas, I would like to know about it because there seemed to be only a couple of states where they were known to be, Ohio, Pa, and New York.
The end result to me is a few wildcats made for long range work that are no longer needed. Also, I have no interest in the 22-250 range hunts.
Is it possible the state of Pa has statistics on either the demise of hogs or the growth of Coyotes?
I just returned from what should have been a month long visit to Potter County, Pa, an area famous for 100 years as Groundhog Central. My emphasis was on open areas where shooting to 1000 yds was possible and 700, the norm. I drove the back roads (grace or dirt) up near the NY line and spoke with farmers at length. There were virtually NO hogs to be had in a large open area. Saw one circus squished in the road and one running near a wood pile. Apparently when a chuck wanders into the open areas, the scent trail remains and is picked up by the first Coyote crossing it, and the hunt begins,
There will continue to be small fields surrounded by woods that will offer targets near the woods as they go no further than necessary to get food, but the days of digging holes in the middle of a field are very threatened,
As a secondary concern, when the Coyote runs out of 8-12 lb easy to catch meals, what will they migrate too? Will they start to lose some of their numbers? Would love to find a scientific source to address this concern if anyone knows of it,
If others are still finding gh;s acting like they used to in large open areas, I would like to know about it because there seemed to be only a couple of states where they were known to be, Ohio, Pa, and New York.
The end result to me is a few wildcats made for long range work that are no longer needed. Also, I have no interest in the 22-250 range hunts.
Is it possible the state of Pa has statistics on either the demise of hogs or the growth of Coyotes?
snert
Silver $$ Contributor
Funny, I had a pack of coyotes all over the three farms I hunt. I killed a pile of chucks off all three farms last year. Fredo not having any issues this year either.
Personally, I suspect hepatitis. One chuck gets it, then they all are gone. And no one studies that, cause ain't no money in woodchuck studies.
Personally, I suspect hepatitis. One chuck gets it, then they all are gone. And no one studies that, cause ain't no money in woodchuck studies.
Coyotes prey upon them, doubt.
But, I truly feel that advancements in farming practices /crop rotation have as much, or more, to do with shrinking 'chuck density than does putting all the blame on coyote predation.
All those mounds are gone from the middle of open fields simply because the farmers tilled over 'em & rotated in corn, millet, oats, beans, rye, wheat, or what have you. When that field rotates back to pasture/alfalfa/grass, the remaining chucks have already retreated to the hedgerows & have found happiness there...
Our big azz NY coyotes like to eat venison, and @ this time of year, they have no problem pulling down Bambi for supper!
But, I truly feel that advancements in farming practices /crop rotation have as much, or more, to do with shrinking 'chuck density than does putting all the blame on coyote predation.
All those mounds are gone from the middle of open fields simply because the farmers tilled over 'em & rotated in corn, millet, oats, beans, rye, wheat, or what have you. When that field rotates back to pasture/alfalfa/grass, the remaining chucks have already retreated to the hedgerows & have found happiness there...
Our big azz NY coyotes like to eat venison, and @ this time of year, they have no problem pulling down Bambi for supper!
There is no question that coyote kill groundhogs, but so do fox. In the last couple years I have seen fox feeding on young groundhogs at least 3 different times, I killed a coyote that was feeding on a GH he had just killed and have come across traps the farmer had put out for GH's, and then there is ME I have killed 241 so far this year. In my opinion our guns and other equipment has gotten so much better than in the past we are really putting a hurting on GH's. One other thing is that some farmers are putting out poison for them so when you add it all up its no wonder there #'s are down. Just my opinion.
Exactly. I have often wondered how Roundup sprayed on GMO soybeans affects groundhogs. Also, there have been huge numbers of groundhogs killed in conibear traps in my area. Poison and gas have also killed several. In spite of all this, I shot 484 hogs last year and 245 so far this year.
Looks like I need to find a host for gh shooting in Ohio next year, What distance are you shooting at for all those hogs?
I am in Md but Nomad is in Ohio. On most of the farms I hunt shots are from 100-700 yds due to the terrain. He is shooting longer range than I am. I mainly use a 20 vt so I can shoot as far as the caliber will allow.
snert
Silver $$ Contributor
I would buy the open country theory but when I watch coyotes in the village eating cats, and coyotes banging around in my best three farms fields, but I am still getting days with 20 plus kills on Ghogs, while ten miles away I see same number of coyotes but NO chucks, not even in yards or woods or hedgerows, I am inclined to think farming and disease. My farms still grow GRASS, alfalfa, not beans for the most part. But as soon as they go corn/beans and drop the alfalfa, no chucks. The change to farming those crops does NOT explain why in those areas there are none in yards, near sheds, or in the "hedgerows". Trust me, where I am at the farmers are too broke/unmotivated to mow, let alone poison, so it is not that.
A year ago I E-mailed the Ohio Dept. of Natural Resources, all they said was were looking into it. A coyote ran down a rabbit in the afternoon in my cousins back yard. A neighbor on the next street showed me a cell phone picture of a coyote in a wooded area across from her home. She said it comes thru every morning about the same time. When they have pups they have to hunt more. I have seen 4 coyotes in the daytime myself. I wouldn't think hunting has reduced the GH population. I head someone say the coyotes don't have to kill the adult GH, they just have to get the GH pups in the spring. Plenty of evidence they kill deer fawns.
In the 70s and 80s there were GH in almost every hayfield in central Ohio. I could go back to the same hayfield every Saturday all Summer long and shoot 1-3. You could just drive the back roads and see den's in almost every field. In the last three years I have only seen about 5 GH in a hayfield. I have not seen a single dirt mound or tall grass where the farmers cut around the den's so they don't damage the equipment. The only GH I have seen were in the road or in a fence row next to the road. Last year I saw Bald Eagles eating a GH in Coshocton Co.
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I too have noticed a significant drop in the groundhog numbers in central Ohio. Coschocton, Knox, and Tuscaraw Counties. 6-8 years ago I shot 105 in 5 days all by my self ranging from 75 yards out to 1150 yards. Over the past 3 years I am lucky to kill 12-15 in 5-6 days of hunting. No signs of holes in open fields like I used to see. Since no till drill has started I have noticed the population fell off. I feel that whatever the farmers are spraying the fields with to kill the vegetation is having the main effect on the population. I have only seen 4 coyotes over a 15 year period while groundhog hunting. At nights I would hunt coyotes with night vision and have only killed one or two coyotes per week hunting in Ohio while on a groundhog week long hunt. Yes they have coyotes up there but really don't believe they are responsible for the significant decline in population.
Many times I've had multiple opportunities on coyotes during the calf birthing season. Just so happens i was parked on my rear glassing for ghogs. That time of the year is a time better than the coyote breeding season to clean up on some coyotes. I remember shooting a coyote going after a new born calf while her partner was chasing the bloody cord coming out of the cow trying to eat it(at least that was my version from my perch ). Once the shot rang, he ditched fast. Other times several coyotes were killed in the same situation during calf birth. It's just too temping for the coyotes to resist. My shots were all under 300 yards closer to 200. Easy Pickens for the shooter. I do know coyotes being predators do kill ground hogs and other herbivores. Just don't think there as much at fault as it may appear. There is a reduction in hogs but not real bad in the areas I shoot them. In Michigan, it's not the case of coyotes being a major ground hog predator. The population just maintains.
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I live in north western Pennsylvania and I have hunted woodchucks a lot over the last 35+ years. I deliver propane in rural Pennsylvania to peoples homes so I travel back roads and see lots of territory in previously highly populated woodchuck county. Starting approximately four years ago I noticed a decline in the number of woodchucks seen in fields while I was traveling and one of the best indicators is I have seen fewer and fewer hit on roads. I am not sure what to blame this on weather it is the coyotes or some type of a disease lowering the population but whatever it is it is real. Even around peoples homes chucks multiply freely for the most part I see very few. I travel on average 100+ miles each day on back roads here in north western Pennsylvania and may see none to maybe a half a dozen during the whole day, a few years ago would not be unusual to see at least 30 to 50 on an average day!
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We don't have ground hogs in my area . We didn't have coyotes also . The deer deer and the hogs were plentiful. Lots of rabbits .
The last two years I haven't seen a spotted fawn or hogs with piglets . Very few rabbits . We have coyote tracks and coyotes all over .
In fact I seen more coyotes then I did deer and hogs combined.
Iam for killing ever coyote posible with any means . Larry
The last two years I haven't seen a spotted fawn or hogs with piglets . Very few rabbits . We have coyote tracks and coyotes all over .
In fact I seen more coyotes then I did deer and hogs combined.
Iam for killing ever coyote posible with any means . Larry
timeout
Silver $$ Contributor
Coyotes will be around to wet on the last white man's grave. In places like Kansas they have been grey hounded, trail hounded, trapped, poisoned, called, sniped, and possibly many other things, all the while with no protection as to seasons or bag limits. I'm pretty sure Coyotes are still plentiful in Kansas.I have heard it said that when mankind and groundhogs are no longer on earth only coyotes and rats will be left.
timeout
Silver $$ Contributor
I will admit to having zero knowledge regarding the ground hog population in the OP's area. I have however been around for almost 7 decades. Most of that time I have lived in a rural area and observed many ups and downs in animal populations. My observations lead me to believe that nature will thin the herd by means of disease. Also as has been mentioned, farming practices have a huge impact on animal populations. Fox and coyote are easy to blame.
Around here, north central N.C., I'm seeing just as many groundhogs as ever, just in different places. Used to be, every pasture, hay field, etc. was infested. Now they've all moved to either thickets along creek bottoms, high road banks, or to the suburbs. ... Not uncommon for them to take up residence under a backyard utility building and live off off garden plants and flowers. But, on the other hand, there's a lot more houses and a lot less pastures and hay fields around here than there used to be.
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