It seems we've seen a plumit in the ground hog population where I live and an explosion in coyote population. is it a coincidence or is that what happen?
coyote vs. ground hog
- Thread starter model 12 toby
- Start date
This subject has become a very popular debate in the Keystone state; most have an opinion. Here are a few questions I ask: when do coyotes typically hunt/eat; at what time of the day are ground hogs most vulnerable; do coyotes eat rabbits; is there a decline in the rabbit population; and the questions that suggest alternative hypotheses are numerous.
I would love to know the opinion of the PA Game Commission and understand the data that supports their position. In the areas where I hunt whistle pigs, coyotes abound yet I have never witnessed a pig being hastled or harvested by a coyote. Similary, I have never hit a pig with my truck at night but I have witnessed several other prey during the hours that the coyote prowls.
In my opinion, I have been the predator that has decimated the ground hog population in the areas I hunt.
I would love to know the opinion of the PA Game Commission and understand the data that supports their position. In the areas where I hunt whistle pigs, coyotes abound yet I have never witnessed a pig being hastled or harvested by a coyote. Similary, I have never hit a pig with my truck at night but I have witnessed several other prey during the hours that the coyote prowls.
In my opinion, I have been the predator that has decimated the ground hog population in the areas I hunt.
WyleWD
Silver $$ Contributor
In my experience the coyotes absolutely WILL deplete the ground hog population. Example: 15 years ago it was not a major challenge to get 100-150 chucks a year and not really have to hunt that hard. Then about 1999-2000 we began to see a large influx of coyotes in the area. In fact the first 3 that I shot were actively hunting 'chuck pups in the evenings. The population of chucks went to almost nothing very quickly. Rabbits nearly extinct in comparison to the 1990's.
In the years 2001-2003 I shot 73 coyotes just within a half mile of my home. A fellow hunter got 105 within a mile of his home in the same timeframe and there were similar numbers from other hunters in the area. Now fast forward to current, I havent seen but one coyote on the hoof since early November. And this spring I've already seen more chucks in this area than I did in all the years of '04 through '08 put together.
When coyotes have their litters, they will feed anytime of day or night, and just ask anyone who has raised a litter of dog pups how much food those growing pups go through a day and the answer will be "a BUNCH!!" coyote pups are no different. So birds, chucks, rabbits, yard dogs, cats, road kills etc will be what they're feeding on. Somewhere I read that a coyote needs to have 1-2 pounds of food per day to sustain them. So have 6-8 coyotes in a mile radius and a litter of 6 pups and do the math..... and figure that they aren't leaving till the food sources are gone. And if you're a coyote do you wanna expend the energy to dig out 32 field mice or snatch a rabbit or a fat young chuck?
Just my experience with the subject. WD
In the years 2001-2003 I shot 73 coyotes just within a half mile of my home. A fellow hunter got 105 within a mile of his home in the same timeframe and there were similar numbers from other hunters in the area. Now fast forward to current, I havent seen but one coyote on the hoof since early November. And this spring I've already seen more chucks in this area than I did in all the years of '04 through '08 put together.
When coyotes have their litters, they will feed anytime of day or night, and just ask anyone who has raised a litter of dog pups how much food those growing pups go through a day and the answer will be "a BUNCH!!" coyote pups are no different. So birds, chucks, rabbits, yard dogs, cats, road kills etc will be what they're feeding on. Somewhere I read that a coyote needs to have 1-2 pounds of food per day to sustain them. So have 6-8 coyotes in a mile radius and a litter of 6 pups and do the math..... and figure that they aren't leaving till the food sources are gone. And if you're a coyote do you wanna expend the energy to dig out 32 field mice or snatch a rabbit or a fat young chuck?
Just my experience with the subject. WD
Bingo. Sounds like I'm going to have to start hunting coyotes. I've been hearing them almost every night when I get home at 230am. maybe ghelli jacket and call every evening I go out to shoot g hogs. what sounds are best to use through the summer and early fall?
WyleWD
Silver $$ Contributor
model 12 toby said:
I always take a call or two when I go 'chucking. If times are slow or if you see a yote out hunting and it is out of rifle range it sure is time to practice your calling. I've shot a bunch of yotes that way. But don't expect instant sucess or a yote to come in everytime you blow the thing. Maybe one time out of 5 or 10 is exceptional. Also, learning to see a coyote is almost an art in itself sometimes. I've shot a lot more that just stuck their head out of a fence row or tall grass to check the call out than I've shot running in to the call. They aren't always stupid.... but I've seen a few do some really stupid stuff.
Pup in distress or cottontail in distress has been the ones that have brought yotes to their maker for me. Primos mouth calls are the brand that I prefer. WD
Yotes have just about killed my hog hunting. Unless they start letting me hunt em in town I got to find another target! The last 5 yrs have been miserable here. If you can kill one a day you did good! I kill every yote that crosses in my scope but it is a losing battle until they deplete every thing they eat. Turkeys are scattered from large groups to one to five instead of thirty to a bunch. Even the deer population is a lot thinner. Got to find another profession...
Caught this one smelling a dead pig I had just popped....
www.varmintsforfun.com
Caught this one smelling a dead pig I had just popped....
www.varmintsforfun.com
I spend a considerable amount of time between spring and late summer hunting groundhogs and been during it for 40 years. In all that time I've never seen a coyote stalking or attempting to attack a groundhog. I'm only stating this as an observation, not some absolute statement on coyote behavior.
I did see and shot a coyote that was stalking a farmer's cat. This occurred at dusk in late August while I was hunting groundhogs. I nailed the coyote at 242 yards with my 223. Also saw one very early in the morning while hunting groundhogs, it had a rabbit in it jaws, nailed him a 165 yards.
We have coyotes here in eastern PA but I have not noticed any decline in groundhog population because of it. I've seen less groundhogs on some farms due to the farmer changing crops from hay/alfaha to corn or winter wheat.
I've read that coyote's are the master adapters so I wouldn't be suprised if they changed their feeding habits to pursue groundhogs if other noctural prey become scarce.
I did see and shot a coyote that was stalking a farmer's cat. This occurred at dusk in late August while I was hunting groundhogs. I nailed the coyote at 242 yards with my 223. Also saw one very early in the morning while hunting groundhogs, it had a rabbit in it jaws, nailed him a 165 yards.
We have coyotes here in eastern PA but I have not noticed any decline in groundhog population because of it. I've seen less groundhogs on some farms due to the farmer changing crops from hay/alfaha to corn or winter wheat.
I've read that coyote's are the master adapters so I wouldn't be suprised if they changed their feeding habits to pursue groundhogs if other noctural prey become scarce.
perhaps it's just the ground I've hunted on for the last 3 years isn't what it used to be maybe.
M-12 -
Howdy !
I DK where you live, but will say this.....
In NE Indiana, I suspect the newer "no-till" ( "Ugly " ) farming method might play a part.
As bad as herbicides used in the past may have been on "soybeanus digestus ", those chemicals used to "burn-down" growth other than the crop desired can't be helping a groundhog's digestive tract.
Or, any other marmot bodily functions.
If nothing else, perhaps these chemicals have caused groundhogs to morph, as some real monsters can be found in the Maumer River "valley"; starting about 5mi East of Sinclair Int.
Perhaps IU has some info, as they have studied groundhogs in the past ?
Groundhogs certainly ARE on the coyote "hot lunch" program, esp as they often sun themselves
while not paying too much attention to what's going on around them.
I have seen a hawk wait on the ground, right above the entrance to a groundhog's den.
He didn't get that 'hog, but I did; once it finally showed its head !
With regards,
357Mag
Howdy !
I DK where you live, but will say this.....
In NE Indiana, I suspect the newer "no-till" ( "Ugly " ) farming method might play a part.
As bad as herbicides used in the past may have been on "soybeanus digestus ", those chemicals used to "burn-down" growth other than the crop desired can't be helping a groundhog's digestive tract.
Or, any other marmot bodily functions.
If nothing else, perhaps these chemicals have caused groundhogs to morph, as some real monsters can be found in the Maumer River "valley"; starting about 5mi East of Sinclair Int.
Perhaps IU has some info, as they have studied groundhogs in the past ?
Groundhogs certainly ARE on the coyote "hot lunch" program, esp as they often sun themselves
while not paying too much attention to what's going on around them.
I have seen a hawk wait on the ground, right above the entrance to a groundhog's den.
He didn't get that 'hog, but I did; once it finally showed its head !
With regards,
357Mag
seems to be much disagreement????
WyleWD
Silver $$ Contributor
Nomad47 said:Hmmm, there must not be any coyotes in central Ohio because I shot 368 groundhogs last summer.
In the part of "central Ohio" that I believe you're referring to .... I'm very familiar with.
We have crossed paths before no doubt. There are a few yotes there, but no where near the numbers we had over here about 10 years or so ago. WDsounds like there needs to be a study on this to see for sure.
I know the area very well. 
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