Coyote Rig - AR or Bolt Gun? 17-223 or 20 Practical?

[fredo]

Yup!
For a 'fun' calling gun, a .20cal gasser is a hoot! And they are quite deadly with a good bullet & very accurate...

Easy gasser, .20Prac. AR's munch brass and throw 'em in the weeds, so ya won't feel bad leaving a few cheap spent cases for Nature to reclaim. I kinda hadta search for my .20TAC brass (Dakota) after successful stands,mwhuch git old, quick. And, although brass catchers might help, they SUCK to have attached on stand. So, to I'd do a .20Prac, this time around, just to munch cheap brass & not worry about the needle/haystack dilemma after firing...

Might wanna do 22" (st least) n the barrel...give those little boolits a chance to build speed! That high velocity is, in part, what makes em kill well. And I'm not one to leave FPS on the table, so...

Have fun!

 

[Larryh128]

I would have both, but setting that aside, if I had to choose one, in my opinion, I would go with the AR and for the following reasons, quick follow up shots, outstanding accuracy and versatility, not to mention the already stated economic advantage of having a existing lower. The CZ 527 would be my hands down choice for a bolt gun, I myself have high end custom ARs in 204 ruger and 6.5 Grendel that I also switch between, also custom CZ in 223 as well, love it

+1 AR

 

[spencerhenry]

I kill an average of 31 coyotes a year now for 21 years. I have used bolt rifles, and autos. While I have killed a few doubles with the AR after shooting the first one standing still, I have killed doubles with bolt guns as well. The vast majority of the time only one coyote comes in per stand. And, once they are on the run, they are really hard to hit, deep snow slows them down, but in the sage a running coyote is very low percentage.
The 17-223 kills coyotes just fine. You can't shoot them poorly and expect them to go down, but a front on shot or a broadside in the chest is almost always DRT. I have only had one exit on a coyote with the 25gr hornady. The entrance hole is hard to find, while skinning, you have to really look for it. I used a 223 for years, but my fur buyer was complaining about holes, no more complaints.
If you are not serious about hunting them for the long term or you are not saving hides, shoot them with whatever you want.

 

[MoneyWaster]

Someone needs to explain exactly how a "sub" caliber going a ka-jillion feet per second is "easy" on fur......as to the bolt gun vs. semi, this is easy to me. I call a lot of predators. I have several of both type guns, but I always call with a semi. Animals come in on the move, they might stop but I wouldn't count on it. You are not going to get too many easy shots and you are calling to kill...so to me fast follow up shots are, at the very least, "handy". Let me say it another way...coyotes are hard enough to call {if you don't think so then you been watchin' too much Randy Anderson!!!}, how many times do you need to see one get away because instead of at least having somewhat of a chance and trying to hit him you are now trying to reload {while watching your coyote run over the hill to safety}??????? Go ahead with a bolt gun at first, you wont be long figuring out that talking about coyotes you "called up, but didn't get" aint gonna get it!!!
It is always nice to have a rifle that shoots very highly accurate, but for predator calling I wouldn't get too tied up in that or you will spend more time at the reloading bench and target shooting than you do predator shooting.
I don't know where you are located, but in many places if you are serious about calling predators and stick to it you are going to eventually turn to hunting at night with night vision. On a high powered rifle it is a given that you need a good suppressor to help minimize blinking out the tube. Something else to think about.
I mean, you have to be honest about this...are you just going to go out call up and kill a coyote or two to say you been there, done that...or is this something you are really into and going to do every week during season???

I appreciate the insight. For me this is something that I really want to get into. I am new to this and have never even shot a coyote to be honest. But like most of my hobbies, when I go in I go "all in". I want to get good at it.

 

[MoneyWaster]

I think that the consensus is the AR platform for the win, and that's what I'll do. Now I just need to decide between the 20 Practical and the 17-223. Both are formed from the ubiquitous 223 Remington case, so brass losses are less of a concern. I want a 17, but I can shoot 40 gn bullets out of the Practical, and that extra energy at 300 yards would be favorable.

 

[MoneyWaster]

I kill an average of 31 coyotes a year now for 21 years. I have used bolt rifles, and autos. While I have killed a few doubles with the AR after shooting the first one standing still, I have killed doubles with bolt guns as well. The vast majority of the time only one coyote comes in per stand. And, once they are on the run, they are really hard to hit, deep snow slows them down, but in the sage a running coyote is very low percentage.
The 17-223 kills coyotes just fine. You can't shoot them poorly and expect them to go down, but a front on shot or a broadside in the chest is almost always DRT. I have only had one exit on a coyote with the 25gr hornady. The entrance hole is hard to find, while skinning, you have to really look for it. I used a 223 for years, but my fur buyer was complaining about holes, no more complaints.
If you are not serious about hunting them for the long term or you are not saving hides, shoot them with whatever you want.

Where did you get your barrel?

 

[spencerhenry]

Barrel is a Black Hole.

 

[WyleWD]

I kill an average of 31 coyotes a year now for 21 years. I have used bolt rifles, and autos. While I have killed a few doubles with the AR after shooting the first one standing still, I have killed doubles with bolt guns as well. The vast majority of the time only one coyote comes in per stand. And, once they are on the run, they are really hard to hit, deep snow slows them down, but in the sage a running coyote is very low percentage.
The 17-223 kills coyotes just fine. You can't shoot them poorly and expect them to go down, but a front on shot or a broadside in the chest is almost always DRT. I have only had one exit on a coyote with the 25gr hornady. The entrance hole is hard to find, while skinning, you have to really look for it. I used a 223 for years, but my fur buyer was complaining about holes, no more complaints.
If you are not serious about hunting them for the long term or you are not saving hides, shoot them with whatever you want.

+1 on spencerhenry's post. 17Rem or 17-223, 17Mach4, any of these if you're saving hides, 25 Hornady or 30gr HPBT Texas Gold (old Kindlers) work well too out of a 9 twist. Lilja or Douglas stainless barrels would be my pick out of a bolt gun. WD

 

[mensajd]

Now that we have accurate inexpensive/free ballistic apps, I'd suggest modelling the 17-223 and 20p ballistics and look at the drop vs wind-drift tradeoff to make an informed decision. BTW, a friend of mine and I purchased WOA and Dtech 20P uppers, respectively, and both are awesome shooters. PacNor and Shilen barrels so not surprising.

 

[Knifeman]

Get a Dtech 20 practical upper!! You’ll never look back. Super easy to load and cheap brass.

 

[MoneyWaster]

Now that we have accurate inexpensive/free ballistic apps, I'd suggest modelling the 17-223 and 20p ballistics and look at the drop vs wind-drift tradeoff to make an informed decision. BTW, a friend of mine and I purchased WOA and Dtech 20P uppers, respectively, and both are awesome shooters. PacNor and Shilen barrels so not surprising.

Good advice. What velocity value should I use for a 25 gn 17 caliber bullet (17-223) out of a 20" barrel? Same for a 40 gn 20 caliber bullet (20p)? Lets keep it simple and make both projectiles Hornady V-Max bullets.

 

[spencerhenry]

Im getting right at 4000 with my 20" and hornady 25's

 

[MoneyWaster]

The next question would be on barrel contour. Would you flute a heavy contour, or go with a medium or light weight contour?

 

[1lessdog]

I wouldnt flute, Its personal choice. I would go med or light but not heavy.

 

[tstowater]

This thread is just giving me the idea that I need to build another AR. If I do it, it will be the 20 Practical. I know several guys that use 204 AR's on coyotes and really like them. I like the idea of not having to worry about brass as Fredo stated. I do like the 17's, but all of mine are in a bolt gun in a 17 Rem.