20 Practical or 223 with 40g--Thoughts?

[Rick in Oregon]

Agree with nakneker above. When Nosler introduced the 224" 40gr BT around 1993 or so, I jumped on it and shot it in all my 223 bolt gun rat rifles for years with much success. But when I got my first .20 in 2004 (204R), it changed the game for me. But when I "found" the virtues of the 20VT, I seemed to have found nirvana.

For what we do here on rockchucks and sage rats, the .20's have really stolen the show for all the reasons mentioned above. I've also found that with the price of powder now, going to the smaller FB case makes for less cost, less blast, less recoil (not that it's a big factor), wicked accuracy, and see all your hit/misses = more fun.

Once you try a .20, you'll see what all the fuss is about.

 

[kevinbritvec]

I LOVE my 223 bolt guns for Prairie dogs and every day fun shooting--The only varmint I would ever shoot is a PD with it.
I have been thinking about a 20 Practical but then wondered why not just do a 223 40g Vmax running pretty fast? I usually stay with my friend -the 53 Vmax--- I was thinking low recoil--less heat and powder economy are a plus--I have 223's that serve me Well out to 500 ish and am taking a 6BR this year for some long shot attempts--I guess I am just restless and want another project
What do you think? I have never shot a 20 of any kind. Looking for the collective wisdom of this fine forum--it always points me in the right direction Thanks Gang

Get the .223, you will always be able to feed it in an emergency.

 

[Ryan66]

Can anybody help us other non 20cal shooters understand the terminal mist/splat factor on PD’s vs some of the 22cal chamberings?

if using equivalent vmax bullets the difference between :
40gr 20 practical
50gr 223
55gr 22-250

 

[nmkid]

I use a 223 seating die also for my 20 Prac. but the seating stem i use JB weld to " bed" the bullet im using.

I use the stem from a .204 Ruger.

 

[nmkid]

Other than being very accurate the thing I like the most about a .20 Practical is...It is so much fun to shoot!

 

[RegionRat]

Since we are all just chewing fat....

I would wish that @dusterdave173 finds room in the safe for a well built rig that he can have a barrel in his choice of 20 cal cartridge. (I will include an AR varmint upper from WOA in that recommendation, nobody can cycle a bolt for a follow up shot like they can with a well balanced AR, but to each their own.)

Like some of the other folks on here who take several weeks out of their year to shoot colony rodents over several decades, I wished I had done the 20 cal thing much sooner in life.

 

[drover]

Can anybody help us other non 20cal shooters understand the terminal mist/splat factor on PD’s vs some of the 22cal chamberings?

if using equivalent vmax bullets the difference between :
40gr 20 practical
50gr 223
55gr 22-250

About the only way to get an unbiased answer to this would require knowing the true muzzle velocity of the ammo you are using (not what is on the box label). You could then use an the on-line program JBM ballistics and see the energy delivered at various distances for a true comparison.

Or you could use published muzzle velocities from load manuals but they are at best an estimation. There may be up to, and sometimes over, 200 fps difference in what the load manuals show as max load data which will skew the energy results.

drover

 

[L.Sherm]

Bullets matter, the 20 cal 39 BK is pretty impressive on the splat factor

 

[ChrisNZ]

Agree and they'll stabilise in many guns where the 40 VMax won't.

The 20s just seem to have higher fun factor.

 

[RegionRat]

Can anybody help us other non 20cal shooters understand the terminal mist/splat factor on PD’s vs some of the 22cal chamberings?

if using equivalent vmax bullets the difference between :
40gr 20 practical
50gr 223
55gr 22-250

I'll try.
I have had all these dope'ed out at one point or anther anyway.
I will use some rough assumptions that are reasonable for each.


Here is what happens at Muzzle, then at 300 yards in terms of FPS and KE for each.

40 VMax 20P roughly 3650 MV, 2530 fps, 568 ft*lbs

50 VMax 223 roughly 3350 MV, 1941 fps, 335 ft*lbs

55 VMax 22-250 roughly 3650 MV, 2400 fps, 639 ft*lbs

Just based on experience with these, I think the numbers are about right.
I don't think the recoil is as easy to describe since some folks want very light guns, and folks like me make them heavy on purpose when they only go a few yards from the truck to the swivel table. With enough weight, the recoil is low and the barrel soaks up the heat of longer strings. With the longer barrel, the velocity is higher, and the noise is out forward of the edge of the bench.

My answer is usually... enough talking and keyboarding, you owe it to yourself to run these before you die and then make up your own mind. If you enjoy shooting a good varmint rig, then go do a 20 cal before you get too old. YMMV

 

[Ryan66]

I'll try.
I have had all these dope'ed out at one point or anther anyway.
I will use some rough assumptions that are reasonable for each.


Here is what happens at Muzzle, then at 300 yards in terms of FPS and KE for each.

40 VMax 20P roughly 3650 MV, 2530 fps, 568 ft*lbs

50 VMax 223 roughly 3350 MV, 1941 fps, 335 ft*lbs

55 VMax 22-250 roughly 3650 MV, 2400 fps, 639 ft*lbs

Just based on experience with these, I think the numbers are about right.
I don't think the recoil is as easy to describe since some folks want very light guns, and folks like me make them heavy on purpose when they only go a few yards from the truck to the swivel table. With enough weight, the recoil is low and the barrel soaks up the heat of longer strings. With the longer barrel, the velocity is higher, and the noise is out forward of the edge of the bench.

My answer is usually... enough talking and keyboarding, you owe it to yourself to run these before you die and then make up your own mind. If you enjoy shooting a good varmint rig, then go do a 20 cal before you get too old. YMMV

Thanks for the reply’s so far and I agree with several points. You only live once - so many rifles and cartridges yet to try!
I understand the logic with energy delivered on target. However there seems to be an ‘X’ factor with actual observed performance on target if that makes any sense and that’s what I’m trying to better understand about the 20cals?

It’s been 15+ years since my last PD trip which I had a 223 and 22-250 with both shooting vmax bullets. The 223 would definitely splat the dogs and provide a good, slightly evil giggle … the 22-250 though could provide aerial acrobatic performance that was a flat out wow type of response.
Does anyone have experience with the 20cals comparatively to how I’m describing above ?

 

[chuckshooter]

Thanks for the reply’s so far and I agree with several points. You only live once - so many rifles and cartridges yet to try!
I understand the logic with energy delivered on target. However there seems to be an ‘X’ factor with actual observed performance on target if that makes any sense and that’s what I’m trying to better understand about the 20cals?

It’s been 15+ years since my last PD trip which I had a 223 and 22-250 with both shooting vmax bullets. The 223 would definitely splat the dogs and provide a good, slightly evil giggle … the 22-250 though could provide aerial acrobatic performance that was a flat out wow type of response.
Does anyone have experience with the 20cals comparatively to how I’m describing above ?

If you are asking about the splat factor, it's pretty hard to argue with Einstein, E=mc. After all you could shoot a . 50 cal. at them and I think the splat factor would be even better. Most of the responses to this threat have said. If you try a .20 cal, you are going to like it. In my earlier post, I was trying to make the point that I hardly take any rifle but .20 cal. anymore. I don't take any of my 220 swifts, my 22-250's, my 223's, my 22br or any my 6mm's because the ,20's get it done. will a 223 or 22-250 get it done, sure. Since we are talking about experience with splat factor I've shot 13,000 rounds this year, single shot, single feed and I prefer the 32gr vmax. in a .20 cal. 20 Ackley hornet, .20 Killer Bee, .20 Vartarg, .20 practical/Tactical , .204r

 

[RegionRat]

Thanks for the reply’s so far and I agree with several points. You only live once - so many rifles and cartridges yet to try!
I understand the logic with energy delivered on target. However there seems to be an ‘X’ factor with actual observed performance on target if that makes any sense and that’s what I’m trying to better understand about the 20cals?

It’s been 15+ years since my last PD trip which I had a 223 and 22-250 with both shooting vmax bullets. The 223 would definitely splat the dogs and provide a good, slightly evil giggle … the 22-250 though could provide aerial acrobatic performance that was a flat out wow type of response.
Does anyone have experience with the 20cals comparatively to how I’m describing above ?

I have to agree with @chuckshooter
Splat factor is a hard discussion unless you accept two things, velocity and energy at the target.

If we say a given bullet/cartridge in 22 has a given splat factor, then if we take the same grain weight 20 cal bullet at a higher velocity and energy at the target, then it is given that the 20 cal bullet not only has more but it will do it farther, just because it has more velocity and energy at the target.

I don't like to get into these grey zone arguments, but in my world a projectile needs to be going well above 2200 fps for there to be "splat" potential. After that, is the bullet design, where you hit them and and even what/how much they have been eating has an effect.

To make it easy, here is the 223 at 3650, and the 204 Ruger at 2650. Folks can argue about pushing one or both harder, but if you step on a 223 then you can step on the 204 as well. So here they are at the same muzzle speed and folks can take it or leave it, but the 20 cal will do roughly 100 yards more than the 223 at a practical field level such that the impact speed is above 2200 fps.

 

[wedgy]

Am I missing something here ?

 

[RegionRat]

Am I missing something here ?View attachment 1562659

Some of the bullets in the JBM ballistics menu offer the Litz G7 version, some offer the G1.
I find the Litz versions are a little better most of the time.
For comparison the G1 223 40vMax is 0.2 and the 204 40 VMax is 0.275
Here is the plain G1 run.

 

[Pete Bon]

I LOVE my 223 bolt guns for Prairie dogs and every day fun shooting--The only varmint I would ever shoot is a PD with it.
I have been thinking about a 20 Practical but then wondered why not just do a 223 40g Vmax running pretty fast? I usually stay with my friend -the 53 Vmax--- I was thinking low recoil--less heat and powder economy are a plus--I have 223's that serve me Well out to 500 ish and am taking a 6BR this year for some long shot attempts--I guess I am just restless and want another project
What do you think? I have never shot a 20 of any kind. Looking for the collective wisdom of this fine forum--it always points me in the right direction Thanks Gang

You’re gonna think I’m crazy but I shoot woodchucks out to 1k yds with a Remington 40X in 7mm mag loaded with 120gr spire point. Yea I know it’s overkill but less wind drift at long range and when zeroed at 310 yds it’s point blank from 0 to 525 yds ( +or - 5” ).

 

[Ledd Slinger]

Thanks for the reply’s so far and I agree with several points. You only live once - so many rifles and cartridges yet to try!
I understand the logic with energy delivered on target. However there seems to be an ‘X’ factor with actual observed performance on target if that makes any sense and that’s what I’m trying to better understand about the 20cals?

It’s been 15+ years since my last PD trip which I had a 223 and 22-250 with both shooting vmax bullets. The 223 would definitely splat the dogs and provide a good, slightly evil giggle … the 22-250 though could provide aerial acrobatic performance that was a flat out wow type of response.
Does anyone have experience with the 20cals comparatively to how I’m describing above ?

The 22-250 is great, but the problem is you can’t run as many rounds before you start getting the barrel too hot. And that’s fine so long as you have multiple rifles and swap them out for barrel cooling. However, if I’m gonna have a larger round that makes more heat, I’m gonna step up to a 6mm round that will reach out a little farther and do better in the wind than a 22-250.

 

[Ryan66]

The 22-250 is great, but the problem is you can’t run as many rounds before you start getting the barrel too hot. And that’s fine so long as you have multiple rifles and swap them out for barrel cooling. However, if I’m gonna have a larger round that makes more heat, I’m gonna step up to a 6mm round that will reach out a little farther and do better in the wind than a 22-250.

Totally agree on the heating up and need for swapping rifles to manage the barrels from toasting and I don’t like that about my 22-250. I’ve not used a 6mm variant so all I have for reference on Pdogs is the 223 and 22-250.

The 22-250, and I’m guessing the 6mm variants are spectacular at the acrobatics and flat out splat factor with the combination of velocity and energy delivered on target. I’m hoping to continue gaining more insight from everybody here with more experience than I have on the 20cal splat factor. It is a bit of a grey area but that’s what is great about these discussions - getting real peoples input from real experiences.

 

[chuckshooter]

You’re gonna think I’m crazy but I shoot woodchucks out to 1k yds with a Remington 40X in 7mm mag loaded with 120gr spire point. Yea I know it’s overkill but less wind drift at long range and when zeroed at 310 yds it’s point blank from 0 to 525 yds ( +or - 5” ).

I don't think you're crazy, I have a big gun for shooting Rock Chucks and If I'm lucky I,ll shoot 70 rounds in a 3-day weekend. But, I have shot over 600 rounds a day in Colony shooting. Apples and oranges .

 

[Ledd Slinger]

The 22-250, and I’m guessing the 6mm variants are spectacular at the acrobatics and flat out splat factor with the combination of velocity and energy delivered on target. I’m hoping to continue gaining more insight from everybody here with more experience than I have on the 20cal splat factor. It is a bit of a grey area but that’s what is great about these discussions - getting real peoples input from real experiences.

Yeah a 75gr HP sierra at over 3500 fps from a 6mm Remington is a lot of fun when it hits a small rodent

The 20 cals really are great tho. Low recoil, fast/explosive, crazy accurate, not too bad on barrel heating, and economical on components for long colony shooting sessions. A faster round like the 204 Ruger will give you plenty of aerobatics!

Like many have already said, you just have to try one to really understand this grey area you are talking about.