Couple consistency questions

[DShort]

First off thank you for accepting me into the group. Secondly sorry for the lengthy post but I’ve a few questions to ask.

so first off I’ve been loading for about 2 years now with very basic interest. I’ve since then want to really focus on consistent accuracy in my hunting loads.

I’ve loaded for a Howa 1500 in 22-250 20” heavy barrel with IMR 4320 with excellent results this past season I ran into some serious pressure signs. Heavy bolt lift and cratering primers. ( primers aren’t flat but cratered) I was close to max charge and have since switched to varget with what looks like some promising results. I recently started working up a load for a buddies rifle same Howa but with a standard 24” barrel. I started with once fired federal brass and on the second outing I found a nice accuracy node at 37 gr of IMR 4320. ( max is 38gr) so I started playing with seating depth and found 1.985-1.995” col were pretty sweet. So I then loaded 5 more of each col and they were all over the place. I’m talking .400” groups to 2.5” groups. What gives? Very aggravating. So since then I’ve gathered that these were all the same lot of 50 cases that have been fired 5 times without annealing only FL sized. So I guess my final question is will annealing the cases solve this inconsistency? Should I toss this brass? I have 100 once fired cases that I bought that need worked up should I anneal them and FL size and try same load? Or work the load all over again with annealed cases. I’ve been searching annealing hard core the past few weeks and have some tempilaq due any day now from midway. Please I’m down for any and all suggestions.

I’ve also been looking into bumping the shoulders and not sure if this will solve my problems or just further my confusion at the moment. I’m really just looking to stick with basics and work on consistency within load to load Outing to outing. I do understand weather plays a role in accuracy but .4” groups to 2.5-3” groups in my opinion isn’t weather related.

again thank you for taking the time to read this and help a fellow reloader our. I truly love this hobby and definitely have the patience to continue just seems I’m hitting a wall with consistency here lately and I believe if the brass wearing out

below are the pics of the 2 loads one week apart the weather was many 5 degrees difference.

 

[Forum Boss]

Federal brass can shoot surprisingly well out of the box, and maybe a couple times thereafter. But it doesn't last. There certainly may be those who have had positive experiences, but basically we say you're wasting your time and barrel life by trying to nurse Federal brass past 3 loading. Get rid of it.

Also, it seems like you are just neck-sizing? You should be FL-sizing and pushing the shoulders back at least 0.0015 every time.

Honestly, it seems like you may be focusing on the wrong factors. From the little group to the big group, you may also have a problem with your factory barrel, or your scope.

But bottom line -- don't bother to anneal the Federal brass. Get Lapua 22-250 brass.

https://www.grafs.com/catalog/product/productId/84

 

[JimSC]

On the cratering a weak firing pin spring or a oversized firing pin hole would be a prime suspect. Look for ejector marks on the case head when looking for pressure signs using that cartridge. I don't put a lot of faith in primers unless they are backing out. Too much variation among the manufacturers as far as the cup hardness in my opinion. Chro data showing a "wow that seems too fast" reading is a good sign also.

On the groups not enough data for anything but pure speculation, it could be anything from cheek weld to your mental focus to a loose scope mount

 

[DShort]

Ok. Gotcha. Also yes I am FL sizing. Not neck sizing. So should I stick with my original load when switching to a better brass? Or re work that load all together?

 

[DShort]

On the cratering a weak firing pin spring or a oversized firing pin hole would be a prime suspect. Look for ejector marks on the case head when looking for pressure signs using that cartridge. I don't put a lot of faith in primers unless they are backing out. Too much variation among the manufacturers as far as the cup hardness in my opinion. Chro data showing a "wow that seems too fast" reading is a good sign also.

On the groups not enough data for anything but pure speculation, it could be anything from cheek weld to your mental focus to a loose scope mount

Ok Thanks

 

[Patch 76]

I agree with all the above. I have shared your frustrations but MOST of the time it's much simpler than you think (i.e. The loose scope mount^). You hit it once you should surely be able to hit it again, especially with Lapua Brass

 

[ppaul]

Ok. Gotcha. Also yes I am FL sizing. Not neck sizing. So should I stick with my original load when switching to a better brass? Or re work that load all together?

You definitely need to work up a new load for your new brass! Capacity can and most likely is different. Also you do not mention the number of rounds your testing at each step.I've settled on 4 rounds for each powder increment to start with. One round to check for pressure at each step and then 3 rounds for a coarse accuracy check. As I hone in on a sweet spot I switch to 5 round groups and finish up with 3-5 round groups. At this point I'm checking accuracy and also velocity. Works for me!

Also, welcome! Best place on the "net" as far as shooting and reloading go. I've learned so much in the short time that I have been here. The quality and expertise of the members here is impressive.

Have a good time, hang onto your wallet,stay safe, and good shooting!

Paul

 

[Ccrider]

@Forum Boss, what happens to the brass to make it bad?

 

[Straightshooter1]

Federal brass can shoot surprisingly well out of the box, and maybe a couple times thereafter. But it doesn't last. There certainly may be those who have had positive experiences, but basically we say you're wasting your time and barrel life by trying to nurse Federal brass past 3 loading.

Had 10 firings on my .308 Federal brass and seemed to be going strong, but changed barrel, so decided not to go any further as I assume they'd kinda formed a "memory" for the old chamber (went from factory barrel to a Krieger after 3700 rounds). They were mostly neck sized the whole time along with bumping the shoulder and FL sized once after 5 firings. Only has 2 out of 200 cases during that time with pockets that went bad (a few heavy loads, but mostly moderate loads; typically, I use my Lapua cases for my heavy load shooting). And out of the factory barrel I was getting .5 MOA or better with this Federal brass. So . . .???

 

[Webster]

First off thank you for accepting me into the group. Secondly sorry for the lengthy post but I’ve a few questions to ask.

so first off I’ve been loading for about 2 years now with very basic interest. I’ve since then want to really focus on consistent accuracy in my hunting loads.

I’ve loaded for a Howa 1500 in 22-250 20” heavy barrel with IMR 4320 with excellent results this past season I ran into some serious pressure signs. Heavy bolt lift and cratering primers. ( primers aren’t flat but cratered) I was close to max charge and have since switched to varget with what looks like some promising results. I recently started working up a load for a buddies rifle same Howa but with a standard 24” barrel. I started with once fired federal brass and on the second outing I found a nice accuracy node at 37 gr of IMR 4320. ( max is 38gr) so I started playing with seating depth and found 1.985-1.995” col were pretty sweet. So I then loaded 5 more of each col and they were all over the place. I’m talking .400” groups to 2.5” groups. What gives? Very aggravating. So since then I’ve gathered that these were all the same lot of 50 cases that have been fired 5 times without annealing only FL sized. So I guess my final question is will annealing the cases solve this inconsistency? Should I toss this brass? I have 100 once fired cases that I bought that need worked up should I anneal them and FL size and try same load? Or work the load all over again with annealed cases. I’ve been searching annealing hard core the past few weeks and have some tempilaq due any day now from midway. Please I’m down for any and all suggestions.

I’ve also been looking into bumping the shoulders and not sure if this will solve my problems or just further my confusion at the moment. I’m really just looking to stick with basics and work on consistency within load to load Outing to outing. I do understand weather plays a role in accuracy but .4” groups to 2.5-3” groups in my opinion isn’t weather related.

again thank you for taking the time to read this and help a fellow reloader our. I truly love this hobby and definitely have the patience to continue just seems I’m hitting a wall with consistency here lately and I believe if the brass wearing out

below are the pics of the 2 loads one week apart the weather was many 5 degrees difference.

Don't understand your group size. My varmint rifle shoots well under .5" groups no matter what I do with the brass. I have a Kreiger barrel. Load for accuracy. Trying to max out fps just leads to problems. If your 150 fps under some max load varmints won't know the difference. I have over 20 reloads on my brass. Cannot miss a GH out to 300 yards.

 

[K22]

Shot the 22 250 for many years with excellent results. My Rem 700, heavy varmint consistently shot in the 1/2 moa range. Here are my thoughts and experiences.

- I never annealed cases. I used new Remington cases with normal case prep. and achieved excellent results as noted above.

- The 22 250 case is tapered and can stretch a lot. I always full sized my cases but with only with a slight shoulder bump, approx. 001". The cases were dedicated to that specific rifle and sized to fit that rifle's chamber. Make sure you are not over sizing your cases - check by measuring the shoulder set back.

- Be careful pushing the pressure envelope with powders such as 4320 and Varget. I used Varget and H4895 but never near the max. load - it just wasn't necessary to achieve excellent accuracy, in fact, in my rifle I achieved the best accuracy with modest loads. 37.0 grain of 4320 is over the max for a 50 grain bullet and way over for a 55 grain bullet in the Nosler Manual!

But believe it or not, I had my best accuracy and consistency with IMR 4350. The 5th Edition of the Nosler Manual has published data for this powder for the 50 and 55 BT. H 380, a ball powder, was also accurate but I stopped using it because I experienced pressure surges in the summer in the field while varmint hunting.

- My rifle had a 14" twist and I found that the 50 grain bullet shot the best with this twist rate. The 50 Nosler BT was outstanding.

- When groups expand to the degree you posted it almost something mechanical has gone sideways with either the rifle action screws, scope mounts, scope or shooter. Shooting an over bore cartridge like the 22 250 in rapid succession will quickly heat up the barrel and open up the group.