Corner crossing legal 10th circuit rules

[Steve Donlon]

We can argue 365 , 24, 7 and untill the courts and gov do something it won't change.
How many who say this and that needs to be done have dealt with hunters on your property, trespassers, ATV's, garbage etc.
I have, its a ROYAL PITA entitled slobs.
Put the shoe on the other foot before you judge.
I've said many times I dont like it the Gov created the problem bottom line.

I deal with it all the time. More stupid people with no respect so you just have to confront them. If you don't, no one else will. At least that is my situation. I have made most of trails and maintain them, no one else even lends a hand. Put up signs does help and after a while most people will get the message. A new neighbor was putting out water and grain to poach deer and elk on a draw where 4 game trails met. I took all the crap, cut it up in pieces, and left it at his gate. The Game and Fish don't do anything to them. What are you going to do? You have to be pro-active with these sort of people. We have no ATV,s on the trails and horses have the right of way. That's just the law in AZ.

 

[J.d. Popkes]

Create a right of way using imminent domain.

Good one. Taxpayers buy the road and fence, right?

 

[True Grit]

Once there's a established right of way the government can put the grazing rights up for auction to the highest bidder. The taxpayers always get screwed.

 

[tstowater]

Everyone not in the 10th Circuit breathes a collective sigh of relief.

 

[Steve Donlon]

Good one. Taxpayers buy the road and fence, right?

No, If it's just an easement the owner would have to pay for the fence and maintain the road unless the county bought the easement. They would only do that if it was going to be a connecter road with a lot of traffic. And then there would be a fight.

 

[Tommie]

This thread is an example of how divisive the subject is. All sides have valid points.

 

[AndyA]

I deal with it all the time. More stupid people with no respect so you just have to confront them. If you don't, no one else will. At least that is my situation. I have made most of trails and maintain them, no one else even lends a hand. Put up signs does help and after a while most people will get the message. A new neighbor was putting out water and grain to poach deer and elk on a draw where 4 game trails met. I took all the crap, cut it up in pieces, and left it at his gate. The Game and Fish don't do anything to them. What are you going to do? You have to be pro-active with these sort of people. We have no ATV,s on the trails and horses have the right of way. That's just the law in AZ.

Is this on BLM or State land? It sounds like it is. Are you law enforcement? Sounds like no.

If it is not your private land:

"you just have to confront them." You are in the wrong and could be liable.

"I have made most of trails and maintain them" Cutting new trails on public land is illegal. You are in the wrong.

"I took all the crap, cut it up in pieces, and left it at his gate." Destroying private property is illegal. How did you know it was the neighbor? Did you surveil them? You are in the wrong.

"The Game and Fish don't do anything to them" Did you report them before destroying their property and/or evidence?

"You have to be pro-active with these sort of people." This will lead to liability. You are in the wrong.

If this was all on YOUR privately owned property, I apologize. If it was not on YOUR privately owned property, you need to apologize.

 

[J.d. Popkes]

This thread is an example of how divisive the subject is. All sides have valid points.

Well, when the public gets together….. it’s a mess. Like recreating on public land

 

[Steve Donlon]

ANDYA, You move somewhere in the mountains and there are no trails, only game trails. So because there are no tails, you just do not go in the forest? No you walk on the game trails or you ride your horse. Then after a few decades it becomes a trail. Then more and more people move to the area and they walk on the same trail I go on. Then even more people come. Then it rains, and the trail washes away or a tree falls down across the trail. Should I cut a section out of tree to go through or should I make a new trail and walk around it.? When erosion turns the trail into a gully do I fix it or just start a new trail. And more people and more wear and tear. I think our mind set is different where I live. WE take care of what needs to be done, or it will not get done. I do not live in a park or national monument. There is no one to call for help. And certainly no one to apologize to.

 

[AndyA]

Hopefully this will be my last reply.

It is not YOUR land. Do not cut trails or "repair" trails that you changed from game trails to horse trails. Your work is why people use the trails.

 

[True Grit]

Yeah right!!

It won't happen unless you have waterfront property and the state wants to rebuild the bridge downtown and make a park. Now we have vagrants living on the water under the bridge next to our restaurant.

 

[timeout]

I don't have a horse in the race and have no vested interest in this discussion. I would like to mention though that eminent domain can be a very slippery slope.

 

[L.Sherm]

Imminent domain is B.S.
Gov takes enough as it is.

You willing to give up some of your land?or unwilling but the gov just takes it?
Its real easy to volunteer other people's property.

 

[dellet]

You willing to give up some of your land?or unwilling but the gov just takes it?
Its real easy to volunteer other people's property.

The latest land grab is the “bringing internet to the unwashed masses” bill. You come home one day and find the ends on conduit coming out of the ground where someone laid it across your property without permission or authority, no easement agreement required. Just ask them.

The guys digging the ditch get handed a map and told to lay conduit. By the time you move up the list of subs and get to the carrier, they tell you permission was granted by the local utility company. When you tell them they are not within the bounds of any existing utility easement or no utility easement exists at all on the property, they tell you to go fight the feds.

When you try to get them to come back and repair the private road they dug up or repair the drainage where they installed the conduit, remove concrete boxes installed in the road that the snow plow hits all you get is the legal department.

The process install the conduit illegally, offer an out of court settlement, go to court and get paid whatever a judge decides you deserve. That process has played out thousands of time in rural America over the last few years. It’s not even a case of “it’s better to ask forgiveness than permission”. It’s a case of who and how much the payoff money goes to when caught in a criminal act. It’s an interesting subject to study if you like that kind of stuff.

At least when it’s over I’ll be able to gripe on forums, because then I’ll have internet.

Maybe if they ran the cable through the corners, that would create the easement?

 

[spencerhenry]

You willing to give up some of your land?or unwilling but the gov just takes it?
Its real easy to volunteer other people's property.

Then there is the privacy loss, the people that shoot from that new easement into your land, the fences that get cut, lots of people start using it and turn it into a mess, throwing their trash out as they drive through what used to be your property, coming and going at all hours with their noisy side by sides.

I own property that borders a couple miles of BLM, the only LEGAL road into the BLM goes through my property. I do NOT allow access. Last week was opening of elk season, there were at least 3 ATV's or side by sides on the BLM, all came in on illegal "roads". Its days like that when I am ashamed to be a part of the same group as that. Oh, and the ATV's chased the elk I was after away before daylight. Lots of hunters are jerks and violate whatever law they can justify breaking. I do not want them going through my property, ever.

 

[choprzrul]

If it's the will of the people to have public lands accessible by the public, use the state's ballot process to pass a law saying there shall be a public easement over private land for the purpose of accessing public lands. If the public land is on corners, have a 10' wide easement for legally traversing public grounds. The private land owner on each corner would have 5' of easement on their corner.

Now, to protect the private land owners, fines and jail time increases 10X for anyone trespassing, poaching, littering, etc. on that private ground. As matter of fact, if someone trespasses off of that public ground onto private, add a $5,000 trespass fee paid to the land owner directly as restitution in addition to other fines and penalties. I think there should be a carve out for entering private ground for retrieving wounded game, but that's just me.

Lastly, there should be a way to do a like for like swap between private and public properties for the purpose of making public ground more accessible and private ground more private. If that land locked public parcel can be swapped to make it more accessible, why not? Make all properties involved in such a swap have 50% property tax reduction as an incentive.

 

[Forum Boss]

The term is "Eminent Domain" not "Imminent Domain".

And it appears there is considerable confusion about how that works.

Eminent domain is the government's power to take private property for public use, provided the owner is paid "just compensation". This power is limited by the Fifth Amendment of the U.S. Constitution, which requires that the taking is for a public use and that fair payment is provided to the owner. The process typically involves appraisal, an initial offer, and, if rejected, the government may file a lawsuit.