Thank you for asking Sir. The rifles, action wise and bbl wise would probably not look a lot different from the Coopers of the 1998*2009 era, all except I would stick with single shots. The action would readily accept light triggers with a secure pre-firing lock. Stock wise, take a look at the Cord 810 coffin hose that is where I would start in both synthetic and wood. I always wanted to blend light weight allow materials into a stock design forearm that cooled but yet looked supercharged, slim but handle great on the bags and off hand. Your question prompted me to sketches btw. Probably stay away from big calibers in that there are so many doing such a great job at making those. I've always wanted to do a Ruger #1 Peregrine clone too but then again I don't think there's a firearm I wouldn't like to make including (as I mentioned earlier) a P210 clone. We dabbled in R&D with an AR Colt design with a rapid fire diverted gas power, self recharged gas power, and electronic trigger with rotary feed rapid fire depleted Plutonium ammo...mainly anti-tank weaponry But this was only in computer design and simulation. Nothing was ever put to metal. We did some wild things sir. My team were dreamers along with me and never quit dreaming. But nice wood and slim sexy design is what I love. Hope this answers some of your questions sir. Again, I apologize for being wordy.
Cooper Arms 1989-2009
- Thread starter Bamaslammer
- Start date
Start with what I do know... G236 was make in Feb of 1998. It was shipped to WW Mann on Feb 10 1998. It was very likely made with a Lilja bbl and Jewel trigger since this is how Bill would upgrade special spec rifles he ordered. I would contact Lilja because I do not know how many groves he would have used. This is something I should know LOL I think Wiseman used 4 as with with Wilson but I could easily stand corrected. I don't have a record of that. Hope this answers your questions in part, my apologies for not being able to answer definitively on the groove question but rest assured when I find out I will respond, Thank your sir
The brass stamp on the bolt handle...there were 50 total made, 25 with the CC stamp, 20 with the VE stamp, and a couple others that went out to writers. After this we started doing a silver braze of the bolt hand to the bolt. Most of the 50 were returned for repair and replacement with the brazed handle removing the stamped brass inlay. I think its cool you have one of the originals. I'm wondering if A105 was a writers or sales sample. Do you mind sharing where you purchased the rifle?
Cbrown3020
Gold $$ Contributor
Really enjoying this thread
Thank you so much for giving us your time. I have a model 21 that was purchased from Todd Kindler bye the fella I purchased it from. He said that he thought it has a Schillen barrel it’s chambered in 17 Mach IV the serial # is G81. Is there any way for me to check that? Again can’t thank you enough for your time and history lesson. I absolutely love my rifle.
Thank you so much for giving us your time. I have a model 21 that was purchased from Todd Kindler bye the fella I purchased it from. He said that he thought it has a Schillen barrel it’s chambered in 17 Mach IV the serial # is G81. Is there any way for me to check that? Again can’t thank you enough for your time and history lesson. I absolutely love my rifle.
So this is a fun and awesome question. Depending on the Wildcat we would defer to any published information on reloading. Todd was a wealth of information as were the people at RCBS and our barrel makers. I would dearly love to avoid this question LOL as it involves questions of liability.
However sometimes its just too fun answer. Typically we would take max published loads, examine pressures, consult with SAMMI, look at our estimated high pressure action strengths supplied by White Labs, try and double the max loads published, build the rifle, place the stocked rifle on a tire with a cement blockade up against the butt of the stock (this was more of a way to test Claro walnut against the rear take down screw) and drop the trigger. This was done most time at my house in Montana, in the country and everyone wanted to be part of it but Randy was my go to guy. And yes this involved tying a string to the trigger and then hiding behind the wood pile in my back yard. Once "tested" (more like attempting to make a pipe bomb) we would tare the rifle apart and ship it off to White Labs who would laugh many times at us but the actions held and we would go into production. I'd love to give you a more scientific answer but my promise of honesty is simply that. What we tried to mimic were any mistakes and experiments a hand loader might take in developing loads thereby trying to protect the experimenter.
Around 1998 we were contacted by "a government agency" to build 10 test barreled actions on the M21 and M22. They were running high pressure tests on 223 and 308 for ammo tests.
Final word, like I said in previous posts, talking to Bill Ruger early on in the company made me build strength. Cooper actions were never made from castings. I like nice solid bar stock, 4140 mainly but also ETD 150 (an interesting material). 4140 bar stock, heat treated and stress relieved was my main go to material for all actions. Hope this helps sir.
According the records, G81 was a VE chambered in 17 machIV. It was ordered and shipped to the Outdoorsman on 10/20/1995, but keep in mind The Outdoorsman and Todd enjoyed a close relationship. Regarding the barrel, I don't recall Shilen producing 17 cal barrels on a production basis for us but only on a test basis. In 1995 it was more than likely a Wiseman, perhaps Shilen test production or even Wilson was used. We were growing at a phenomenal rate in 1995, honestly we would have used any top quality 17 cal barrel that worked and could meet our ever increasing demand. This was a time we were looking for a steady supply of bbl that could be delivered on time. 1995 I don't have records of bbl use and have to rely on memory. I can say this, if the rifle didn't shoot during testing the bbl was replaced and rebuilt and tested again.
Early 1995 were trying times at Cooper. I had taken on investment from a very reputable family and old college friend. I was arrested in the summer of 1995 on a DUI charge. Something about driving a Corvette at 115 mph in the Bitteroot with a six pack. I was "asked politely to leave' but stay on as a Board member. The summer of 1995 Mr Bischof was hired by the majority ownership of Cooper and ran Cooper until 1996 I took Cooper back under the acquisition of CVC. The CVC conglomerate began to fail in 1998, that is when I took Cooper back as my own, 92% owned by my me. At last I had the company on my own. Thanks to my college buddies and my father, I learned the mystics of making Cooper profitable. Thus the introduction of the M21 Varminter.
In 1998 I held a meeting with the people at Cooper and said either we make this happen or we don't.
My people reached down on the boot straps and made it happen primarily due to the introduction of the Varminter and then many faithful dealers that basically said "lets do it". I've always said the success of Cooper is not me...it's my people. They believed in me and I believed on that small 50 man and women crew. They were the best.
For those reading this, I have a funny story. In 1998 our local bank refused to finance an operating line to cover payroll. Luckily I had a loan officer that would allow me to overdraft payroll up to $30,000 a week. During rapid sales in 1998 our dealers would pay ASAP but this was the time of mail...the checks came by mail. So the checks came in faithfully on Monday, more than enough to cover overdrafts over the weekend including payroll. By the book Cooper was operating in the positive and ever growing. My banker finally said enough is enough and Cooper was finally given a revolving line of credit more than enough to fuel the company thru investment things like major wood acquisitions and most important CNC equipment that allowed us to finally control inventory and manufacturing without having to take parts on a COD basis from various vendors.
About 1999 we finally had everything under our control and things just got better money wise, enough that during Hurricane Katrina God reached out to me and we ended up buying 50,000 lunches and water for the people suffering from Katrina. I came into work, my CFO saw that I was troubled. I asked her if we could make it happen. She simply said yes I can do this. And so we did.
Thank you for listening...God bless and have a great year!
Cbrown3020
Gold $$ Contributor
Wow awesome stuff Thank you Thank you!
I should have mentioned in my first post that the barrel is stainless not sure if that’s a help.
I should have mentioned in my first post that the barrel is stainless not sure if that’s a help.
luckyshot52
Gold $$ Contributor
Hi Dan, a couple of quick questions if u have time.
1. A VE 6x in 221fb means what and when Mfg’s?
2. What made a Scheels special?
I have no.1 and a Scheels in 22-250. Being a smith and former owner of Wichita and Champlin rifles I really appreciate the way Coopers are manufactured.
I’ve enjoyed reading the above.
1. A VE 6x in 221fb means what and when Mfg’s?
2. What made a Scheels special?
I have no.1 and a Scheels in 22-250. Being a smith and former owner of Wichita and Champlin rifles I really appreciate the way Coopers are manufactured.
I’ve enjoyed reading the above.
All VE's and Varminter series were made with stainless bbl unless special ordered other wise.
luckyshot52
Gold $$ Contributor
So my ve6x would be s.o. With a cm barrel? Year?
This will take me some time to research sir but rest assured I will do so. Typically speaking anything we made with an "X" was a spec experimental rifle. The Scheels Varminters were special runs, meaning in quantity it made them more economical to produce. The Scheels Varminters were basically a Montana Varminter made with AA Claro wood where as we used AA Select wood for the Montana Varminter. Made to the same accuracy and quality specs this was the only difference.
The Scheels Varminter was a collaboration between myself and Steve Scheel and Matt. I was given the chance to make a bulk buy of mixed Claro wood from CA. The bulk reduced price of the wood made it possible to offer this model thru Scheels. I need to look into this VE6X and will get back to you. Thank you for your patience my fellow gun maker brother.
Yes if it has a cm bbl it is no doubt a special order or an experimental chambering. But the "X" tells me it was a sample/experimental design, tested and sold...do you recall where you acquired the rifle? Obviously I am having trouble finding the serial number.
luckyshot52
Gold $$ Contributor
The x is in place of another 6. I traded into the rifle many years ago. It is an amazing critter getter.
Do you recall what year you acquired it?
luckyshot52
Gold $$ Contributor
10 or more years
Hi Dan, I have sent you a PM and shared where A105 came from
We have spoken since the post but the signiture is most definitely mine and my nephew Jason's.
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