Confused over inconsistant velocity ???

[270guy]

Hi All,
have been working up some a new load for my 6.5 x 47L, after taking an extended break from shootring/ reloading. By way of background, my rifle is a trued Rem 700, Truflite 22" no 3 profile, in a ADL stock, with bedding, DPT Suppressor. It is used for paper upto Red deer, and anything in between. My go to load was 123 Amax with 37.5 gr RE15
Been trying to work up a load for the 143 gr ELDX, using ADI2209 (H4350), settled on 39.5 gr, after Saterly style work up which I ended up starting at 35.4 gr all the way to 40.4 gr. Work up velocity for 39.4/39.6/39.8 2691,2696,2710. I'm aiming for around 2700 fps.
So I went ahead and loaded 20 rounds at 39.5gr, all individually measured using a Hornady balance scale. As a side test, I tried annealing the 10 of the rounds, before full length resizing.
The first two 5 shot groups I fired, 2654 to 2695, not perfect, but a start. Both groups were at 1" with my iffy shooting. What I'm confused about is the second two 5 shot groups. These were the cases I "tried" to anneal. They ranged from 2515,2529,2530,2633,2636,2676,2678,2682,2689,2696 .Actual velocity in shot order 1 to 20...2650, 2654, 2663, 2670, 2684, 2653, 2686, 2681, 2687, 2695, 2676, 2678,2696, 2515, 2636, 2530, 2682, 2689. Last ten were the cases I tried to anneal .Apart from the annealing, they were loaded exactly the same way. The groups tightened up to 0.61s, maybe I settled in to shooting.
So I'm left thinking that either I have a issue measuring each powder charge (me or the scale), or my annealing has had a effect on some of the cases. All the brass used has been reloaded twice previously without annealing. Looking at the fired cases there is a difference to the carbon patterns around the case necks. It seems more uniform around the "un-annealed", all the way down the neck. And the Annealed seems to have a more wavey pattern, as if the necks sealed / expanded differently when fired.

If you have had something similar, or can tell what I've likely done, please help me out.
thanks

 

[varget204]

It sounds like you by accident. changed neck tension.check neck diameter of cases,How hot did you get cases?,I would also check OAL of cases make sure they are all trimmed to same length.Only other thing i can think of now is ;how often do you clean barrel?. If you know someone w/ borescope,check for Carbon,Copper Ring build up at back of throat.Some barrels thats a problem.Easy way to check use nylon brush a little bigger than 6mm w/ copper remover,brush good, then wet patch.If patch comes out Blue that could be your problem. About your scale,it it some where were its 70 degrees,Cool-cold weather can ruin a scale.Do you have scale weight checks.if not weigh something you've weighed in the past and weigh it on your scale. Forgot,when is last time you cle.aned supressor,some carbon build up gets bad Hope this helps

 

[270guy]

Thanks varget204. I'll check the barrel, but was cleaned just before I did the Saterly (probably spelt wrong - sorry) testing, the day before. Clean patches coming out. Suppressor is new, less than 60 shots. I'll have to double check the scale. I'll figure out something to use, maybe projectiles?
cheers

 

[dkhunt14]

It could be the chronograph. Matt

 

[Nowhere Man]

As the barrel got warm and dirty, the velocities went up

 

[gravelyctry]

What chronograph are you using?

 

[JimSC]

unless you are using a machine rest group sizes can vary due to shooter error or environmental changes (wind/mirage). Velocity can be a dozen different things, even taking your coat off or putting one on can alter velocity. I read once that a 30 psi difference in hold pressure between a hard hold and a soft hold can cause a 20 FPS difference in velocity

I know we all want to think we have the consistency of a national F class team captain at the firing line but in reality that ain't so and most of my 9's and all of my 8's are due to shooter mistakes not the rifle or ammo

 

[Depart123]

They ranged from 2515,2529,2530,2633,2636,2676,2678,2682,2689,2696 .

If this was the actual progression, then it wasn't the annealing. Your barrel was heating up.

 

[270guy]

As the barrel got warm and dirty, the velocities went up

Sorry, the velocities listed are not in the order that they were shot. They were random, I can list in order a little later. As an example, from memory, I had 2696, and then 2515, about shot 10 and 11, out of 20. There was no gradual increase in velocity. Sorry should have listed actual order, but when I posted I was trying to break the numbers down and had written another list of the velocities from low to high.
I have edited original post to show actual order of velocities obtained.

 

[270guy]

It could be the chronograph. Matt

Using a new Magnetospeed v3. Seems to have been spot on so far.

 

[270guy]

unless you are using a machine rest group sizes can vary due to shooter error or environmental changes (wind/mirage). Velocity can be a dozen different things, even taking your coat off or putting one on can alter velocity. I read once that a 30 psi difference in hold pressure between a hard hold and a soft hold can cause a 20 FPS difference in velocity

I know we all want to think we have the consistency of a national F class team captain at the firing line but in reality that ain't so and most of my 9's and all of my 8's are due to shooter mistakes not the rifle or ammo

Cheers. Happy enough with group sizes, and I may have relaxed into the shooting, as I progressed through the shots. Heck, I even paused to knock over some rabbits for the farmer (where I was doing the testing), with my old Sako .22lr. Have to pay your way. cheers

 

[JimSC]

Cheers. Happy enough with group sizes, and I may have relaxed into the shooting, as I progressed through the shots. Heck, I even paused to knock over some rabbits for the farmer (where I was doing the testing), with my old Sako .22lr. Have to pay your way. cheers

Hheh offtopic but I have been burning thorough a brick of quality .22LR a month at 100 and 200 recently working on wind skills and consistency. Not many rabbits where I shoot, the snakes and the gators keep them thinned out. Got a couple of red tail hawks that hunt there also

 

[270guy]

Hheh offtopic but I have been burning thorough a brick of quality .22LR a month at 100 and 200 recently working on wind skills and consistency. Not many rabbits where I shoot, the snakes and the gators keep them thinned out. Got a couple of red tail hawks that hunt there also

No snakes or gators here, so rabbits can be a problem. Not a lot to bother them really, so they are a pest. .22 lr is fun, what are you using? Oh, I'm in New Zealand by the way.
I'm still confused about the velocity changes with my 6.5x47L. I've ordered some tempilaq, to make sure I'm hot enough, but not too hot when attempting to do annealing.

 

[JimSC]

.22 lr is fun, what are you using? Oh, I'm in New Zealand by the way.

sorry for derailing the thread but CZ 452 with Boyd's stock and Rifle Basix trigger. Ammo of the month is SK pistol match special. 200 Yards is great practice for watching wind cycles

 

[270guy]

sorry for derailing the thread but CZ 452 with Boyd's stock and Rifle Basix trigger. Ammo of the month is SK pistol match special. 200 Yards is great practice for watching wind cycles

No worries. I like older .22 rifles, Sako P54, suppressed, minute of rabbit is what I aim for.

 

[Ccrider]

If the ring around some of the necks is a solid circle all the way down on some and wavey on others, your neck tension is different. This will give you these variances in velocity. Sometimes the differences in speed will not show on the target.

You should be going for wavey. Toney Boyer addresses this in his book. Solid ring basically indicates less clearance.

 

[LCazador]

No snakes or gators here, so rabbits can be a problem. Not a lot to bother them really, so they are a pest. .22 lr is fun, what are you using? Oh, I'm in New Zealand by the way.
I'm still confused about the velocity changes with my 6.5x47L. I've ordered some tempilaq, to make sure I'm hot enough, but not too hot when attempting to do annealing.

Velocity inconsistency can usually attributed to powder burn rate. I'd try a different powder, probably slower a slower one.

 

[270guy]

Velocity inconsistency can usually attributed to powder burn rate. I'd try a different powder, probably slower a slower one.

Velocity was consistent until I used the cases, that I had a go at annealing. ADI 2209 = H4350, usually consistent powder. I think it was the neck tension.

 

[270guy]

If the ring around some of the necks is a solid circle all the way down on some and wavey on others, your neck tension is different. This will give you these variances in velocity. Sometimes the differences in speed will not show on the target.

You should be going for wavey. Toney Boyer addresses this in his book. Solid ring basically indicates less clearance.

Thanks.

 

[270guy]

So I got the tempilaq, I had another go at annealing some brass, and have reloaded some more rounds to see what happens. I tested my scale, seems to be repeatable, and weighing correctly. I meticulously measured each powder charge, then measured them again. Hopefully the weather co-operates this weekend, and I can sneak away from the Xmas hype to have a little quiet time, shooting! Thanks for the responses so far, and I'll come back with what happens. cheers