Concentricity issues with Redding bushing dies!

[bozo699]

Hey Guy's,
I have been having trouble for quite sometime with runout after resizing with my Redding bushing dies, the regular dies arn't bad but if I have less than .001 runout on a fired case I sometimes have .003- .007 runout after sizing?? I bought a new Redding T7 turret press a few months back and noticed the problem since the new press. I set up a dial indicator on the T7 and found it had .003 tip to the turret when much of any pressure was applied, so I figured that was the problem so I bought a RCBS RockChucker, still the problem persisted? I have for years when seating my bullets, seat them 1/2 way then rotate 180* then finish seating to reduce runout, so I tried it when resizing my cases and it seemed to help quite a bit. I suppose you guys have done that for years do any of you do this? and do you have any other tricks to reduce n/k runout?
Any help will be appreciated and put to good use.
Wayne.

 

[500x]

How much are you sizing down with the bushing? if more than around .005, try it in 2 steps instead of 1.

 

[bozo699]

How much are you sizing down with the bushing? if more than around .005, try it in 2 steps instead of 1.

500x,
The cartridge I was loading for today is a 6*284, Lapua brass light clean up on the necks, loaded rounds measure between .2705 -.271 I have been using a .269 bushing but haven't measured it to see if in fact it is .269 I could try a .270 then do a final .271 and see what that does, Thanks
Wayne.

 

[RonAKA]

What is your fired brass neck OD before sizing? That will determine how much you are sizing down the neck with the bushing in one step.

 

[bozo699]

What is your fired brass neck OD before sizing? That will determine how much you are sizing down the neck with the bushing in one step.

Duh!! I should have known that Ron I don't know what I was thinking! I will have to run down to my loading room to see and I can't remember off hand but I want to say .274 or .275
Wayne.

 

[bozo699]

Ron,
I couldn't take it,my loading room is only about 50 yards from the house,its only about 27* out and I was all comfortable in my easy chair but what you said about what is your fired od was bugging me so bare legs and all I walked down to the loading room to do some measuring ??? Holy cow Ron I think you found my problem, and maybe 500X has the solution. My fired brass needs re turned because it varies some but its .277-.280 fired, sized is .2685 and I measured the .269 redding bushing @ .2675 which makes sense of the .2685 sized case..280-.2675=.0125 no wonder I have runout!! I guess I am going to have to buy another reamer and try it again. Do you think with that much sizing I will ever be able to get it to shoot well?
Wayne.

 

[jonbearman]

Send the reamer back or have them resize it. Do you have heat in your reloading shop? I wouldnt walk that far in shorts,someone is liable to put you in the looney bin.LOL LOL I can see the newspaper headlines: Man found to be human popscicle! LOL Se ya later wayne,just got a job and have to leave to do my time.

 

[fl3gun]

Take a good look at the alighnment of the ram and tool head on that press. I went through the same nightmare with mine and found after about a year of headaches that the ram was about .150 off center with the die holes in the tool head. I sent it back to redding and the sent me back a new press with "tighter tolerances". drop me an email fl3gun at bellsouth dot net and i'll send you the pictures to show you what i am talking about.

 

[bozo699]

Take a good look at the alighnment of the ram and tool head on that press. I went through the same nightmare with mine and found after about a year of headaches that the ram was about .150 off center with the die holes in the tool head. I sent it back to redding and the sent me back a new press with "tighter tolerances". drop me an email fl3gun at bellsouth dot net and i'll send you the pictures to show you what i am talking about.

fl3gun,
I quit using the Redding once I found it had .003 tip to the turret when I started the ram into the seating die stem which is spring loaded so it didn't take much to tip it. I am now using a new RCBS Rockchucker which doesn't mean anything it could be bad also, there is not enough meat to get my mag base indicator stand to stick to,too see how far out the ram is from top to botton of stroke. My email is down this morning but I will write you later today and thank you. My email address is;
waynebezona@cpcinternet.com
Wayne.

 

[RonAKA]

Wayne, it was 500X that initiated the thought. I just gave you a nudge to answer his question. Yes, 0.012" is a lot to be sizing down, and is quite likely causing the runout. You could do it in steps if you have the bushings. However, you are still left with a large clearance neck that really only can be cured with thicker brass in the neck (quite a bit and not likely practical), or a rechamber of the barrel.

Sizing in steps may help a little, but likely the real cure is to get a chamber with a tighter neck, if you want target quality accuracy. That said I'm sure there are many hunting guns out there that have this much neck clearance and more. I know one I have is in the 0.009-0.010" range. Most hunters never measure this stuff. Just FL size, and if it fits in the gun they are good to go!!

 

[bozo699]

Send the reamer back or have them resize it. Do you have heat in your reloading shop? I wouldnt walk that far in shorts,someone is liable to put you in the looney bin.LOL LOL I can see the newspaper headlines: Man found to be human popscicle! LOL Se ya later wayne,just got a job and have to leave to do my time.

Jon,
That's funny right there!! I live out in the country I do have some neighbors that live across and down the river a ways, when I am not shooting late @ night there just content to keep there mouths shut and stay put in there little weekend cabins, that they erected 100 years after we were the only one here but that's another story in its self. It probably was quite a site but after 500X and Ron presented me with some insite to my problem I just couldn't take it When did you get your new job Jon and what are you doing? give me a PM tonight and let me know, we havn't talked for a week or so anyway.
Wayne.

 

[HolyMeekrob]

What is your fired brass neck OD before sizing? That will determine how much you are sizing down the neck with the bushing in one step.

Duh!! I should have known that Ron I don't know what I was thinking!

Uh...ahem. I think I can relate to that sentiment...you may have just solved the concentricity issues I've been complaining about...

 

[commando57]

How do you measure press/ram misalignment? How do you put a gage on it?

 

[bozo699]

How do you measure press/ram misalignment? How do you put a gage on it?

In fl3guns case he didn't need to measure the problem you could visually see the problem, in my case the turret was tilting (moving)
when pressure was applied, about .003 as soon as the shell holder came into contact with the redding seating die and started to push the spring loaded sleeve upwards probably much more when sizing! I was able to measure it with a magnetic base and a dial indicator, there is enough meat on the back side of the press to get the base to stick to.
Wayne.

 

[Steve Blair]

Wayne,

If you are using the Type S full length dies; tighten the stem until it makes contact with the bushing, then unscrew ¼ turn. This will allow the bushing to float a little and self-align to the case. The other suggestions should be checked first. Floating the bushing is kind of a fine tuning step.

 

[bozo699]

Steve,
I have always went back 1/8th turn I will try 1/4thanks. I just picked this rifle up a short time ago, I bought it from my smith, he competed last year with it and did well. I called and told him about the amount of neck expansion it had, he knew it it just hadn't been a problem for him, he borrowed the reamer from another smith, I am going to purchase another reamer with a tight neck chamber with new blue box Lapua in mind and rechamber it.
As soon as 500x and Ron headed me in the right direction I solved the concentricity issue and was able to greatly reduce it with the methods that were given and I even got them further reduced by rotating the case at the half way point if being resized. I will implement your suggestion as well and let you know the results, thank you, and I thank everybody involved for helping me with this problem, I had multiple issues going on and have whittled away at them until I have just about got it.
Wayne.

 

[fl3gun]

How do you measure press/ram misalignment? How do you put a gage on it?

I did'nt need no fancy mesurin' quipment to find this problem!