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comparing load data

can load data be cross referenced for similar cases such as the 6.5-06 Ackley imp and the same bullet weight in say the 280 Ackley improved? Just as a starting point with the same powders and bullet weights? I would assume the case capacity would be very similar. I know you wouldn't use the exact load grain for grain but as a way of getting added data for more powders! Thanks as always,Ron
 
Take a look at big stuff etc and there is a thread dealing with a similar cartridge that you could use as a good starting point.
 
If within similar case capacity, the same caliber and using the same or heavier bullet weight as a reference, I would say yes (albeit cautiously). IMO, I would consider cross-referencing calibers, even within the same or similar bullet weights, as not being a good idea. Best I can tell, as the caliber increases for a given case capacity and bullet weight, the necessary burn rates of the powders decrease.
 
If by cross referencing you mean "a starting point" or "range of powder weights that might work" probably yes.

However, even changing a barrel on a rifle can make all previous load data irrelevant. Rather than try and extrapolate a load for a different caliber, no matter how similar, I'd just do a standard load workup and save brain cells.
 
RW said:
can load data be cross referenced for similar cases such as the 6.5-06 Ackley imp and the same bullet weight in say the 280 Ackley improved? Just as a starting point with the same powders and bullet weights? I would assume the case capacity would be very similar. I know you wouldn't use the exact load grain for grain but as a way of getting added data for more powders! Thanks as always,Ron

There are a bunch of variables that control a load - burning speed, sectional density, bore size, and case volume are the major ones. IF you want to compare two cartridges, for powders, the other three MUST be equal.

Because they are both Ackleys and based on the '06 case... means nothing. Ballistically, they have nothing in common.

There is so much free loading information available on the net, that there is no reason to do risky things like this.
 
You could do that but as stated there are a lot of pitfalls especially with double base ball powders. These reportedly have a range of efficiency that doesn't like being violated.A lot of things could happen including the "bigfoot" low load detonation. Just more likely to stick a bullet in the barrel, then pushing out a long bearing surface bullet w/ a < 0.264" rod could be a real adventure.
 
CatShooter said:
RW said:
can load data be cross referenced for similar cases such as the 6.5-06 Ackley imp and the same bullet weight in say the 280 Ackley improved? Just as a starting point with the same powders and bullet weights? I would assume the case capacity would be very similar. I know you wouldn't use the exact load grain for grain but as a way of getting added data for more powders! Thanks as always,Ron

There are a bunch of variables that control a load - burning speed, sectional density, bore size, and case volume are the major ones. IF you want to compare two cartridges, for powders, the other three MUST be equal.

Because they are both Ackleys and based on the '06 case... means nothing. Ballistically, they have nothing in common.

There is so much free loading information available on the net, that there is no reason to do risky things like this.

I am definitely not an authority on a question like this since I load in a very narrow range and with only three cartridges and the conventional NRA High Power Rifle targets are much easier than for the other disciplines that are discussed here but your advice seem to be sound. But it causes me to wonder why we see so many questions similar to this, is there a reason that people do not go to the loading manuals (Sierra, Hornady, Lyman, etc.) for a starting place? Is it that folks who are on the cutting edge with competition, bench rest, F Class, etc. and they are beyond what is useful in those references? I am in no way being critical rather just trying to learn.
 
If you are looking for data on the 6.5-06, the 25-06 is real close as well as the 6.5-284. 270 Win is close but use only starting loads or below and same bullet weight. All loading should be low charges and work up. What exactly are you wanting to load? I have built two 6.5-06 rifles one barrel is shot out and gone the other is close, they were built in the early 80's. There is data in some loading manuals now, Nosler and Berger come to mind. The 280 Rem case is longer to the shoulder (it can hold more powder) than the 30-06 based cartridges (25-06, 270 win,338-06). The rule of thumb for the Ackley Improved cartridges is to use the standard data and work up. You can fire the original ammo in an Ackley chamber and it will form the brass.
 
RW,
You may want to contact a Powder Tech at the company whose powder you want to or will be using. They usually wish to be contacted by phone and the numbers and times the techs are available on the phones are usually posted on the companies website. They also may have a load listed in their reloading data too on their website. Dont guess or assume. And know that suggested loads , cartridge OAL , ETC, SHOULD BE USED WITH CAUTION. They reflect what works in THEIR RIFLE. In your rifle they maybe dangerously over pressure. Always start low and work up!
Take care!
Phil Hoham
Berger Bullet Tech
 
T-REX said:
I am definitely not an authority on a question like this since I load in a very narrow range and with only three cartridges and the conventional NRA High Power Rifle targets are much easier than for the other disciplines that are discussed here but your advice seem to be sound. But it causes me to wonder why we see so many questions similar to this, is there a reason that people do not go to the loading manuals (Sierra, Hornady, Lyman, etc.) for a starting place? Is it that folks who are on the cutting edge with competition, bench rest, F Class, etc. and they are beyond what is useful in those references? I am in no way being critical rather just trying to learn.

I don't know, T...

There are many levels in loading, and powders is the most complex. The "canister grade" powders used by most reloaders are blended like fine whisky. They are so controlled that you can get a new jug with a new lot number, and keep on loading.

There is so much information on these powders that it makes me wonder why someone is trying to fudge loading data from an un-related cartridge - there about eleventy-hundred websites with free loading data.

With Mil-surp, the loads are "kinda" suggested by the seller, but you are on your own for final load. A loader with a few years of reading primers and case signs should be OK.

Then there is a non-graded bulk powder (50 and 100 pound barrels, up to freight car loads) that companies will not even admit they sell, unless you have a ATF Commercial manufacturing license on file. With these, you are on your own... a pressure gun comes in handy.

There is no reason for 99.99% or reloaders to try to guess at loading data.
 
Thanks every one for taking the time to respond. I would not try to just make a guess at the load from a very different cartridge, I was just trying to find out if on the 30-06 family of Ackley's if since their is some what limited loading data in the many manuals and inter-net researching for more powder options. I see were people use the Quick Load program to get data for loads that are not published. That is why I put the question out there so that I could get your experienced reply's. Before I do any reloading I cross check with as many Manuals as I can and the internet and I have found that some times there is a big difference in loading manuals that it amazes me along with the internet as not all guns are the same, I always start way below any load that is recommended and work up from there. I admit that when comparing say the 280 Ackley with the same weight bullet to the 6.5-06 Ackley, I didn't take into account for bullet diameter. I watch this site so much and learn something new every day and respect the vast people here that know so much more than I ever will Thank You for your time and patience I'm sure I will have more stupid questions, Ron
 

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